Considering a project - Is there a definitive reference?

[Rapido]

Hi,

Have lurked on these forums for a while and dreamt of finding a property to do up ourselves. I may have found one but a little scared to jump into it. Is there a reference guide, a full how to, or some book etc that gives a good overview of what to expect when doing up a property?

Like anything, Ideally I'd like to know or at least get an idea on how much it would cost to do certain 'parts' of a project to try and figure out a total.

It's a victorian property I'm looking at.

Thanks,

R

 

[JoceAndChris]

It very much depends on the size of the property and what needs doing. Roof - 5 -10 k average? More if it's a large property with a complex roof. New drains - 5 k for bits and bobs of replacement and repair. If you want nice guttering another 5 k? Kitchen, bathroom, sky's the limit but at least 4k each? But more like 8 k each for decent ish quality. Rewiring seems to be about £200 a room for labour and replastering more like £1000 a room for lime work - the rooms being around 12-15 sq m. Labour seems to be £150 -£200 per day for experienced tradesmen ( in this county anyway) Flooring - if your floors are sound you can may be able to carpet at around £400 a room. If you want encaustic tiles and reclaimed boards you might need another 10 k for those. New sashes - £1000 each roughly? Reclaimed fireplaces - 2k each ish. Reclaimed doors seem fairly reasonable on EBay - £200 or so each. Curtains - anything from £300 ish in Dunelm Mill to £3000 ish for a large bay needing swags and tails. Light fittings - same - you could paper globe throughout or get some period style ones from somewhere like Broughtons at £300 -£600 each or around £100 for simple Jim Lawence brass spots with matching switches. It all depends what you want.

Then there's the garden, which could easily gobble up 50k on gates, walls, drives, garages.

All in all I'd say I wouldn't bother if I didn't feel I could get hold of at least 50 k over time to do up a 4 bed detached house ( which is what we have), and I expect we'll spend perhaps 3 x that over a 25 yr period, doing huge amounts of work ourselves.

They're very rough figures and I daresay better ones are published. I'd buy "The Old House Handbook" by Marianne Suhr.

 

[LadyArowana]

Kitchens, and to a lesser extent bathrooms are expensive. If you have a difficult shaped room and to make the most of the space have bespoke cabinets it will add a lot to the price. For a good size kitchen, one that you can fit a proper table in rather than some nasty "breakfast bar", and factoring in nice tiles,quality work tops, light fittings and appliances you could easily spend 30K without going top of the range. If you want an Aga for example that is a big chunk of change. I recently went into Magnet with a friend and even a small kitchen, tiny actually, was going to be about 15 by the time she had paid to take out old and replace everything, she decided not to bother as what she has is fine!

 

[FamilyWiggs]

PPUK is pretty much all you need!

And welcome to the forum.

 

[worms]

All in all I'd say I wouldn't bother if I didn't feel I could get hold of at least 50 k over time...

:shock:
Joce, while this is probably very sound advice, some of us will be lucky to see 50k disposable income in a lifetime! For us, DIY, DIY, DIY is the only way. Lime, sand, linseed oil and timber are relatively cheap and are the answer to most problems, everything else is a luxury!

 

[angrybird]

All in all I'd say I wouldn't bother if I didn't feel I could get hold of at least 50 k over time...

:shock:
Joce, while this is probably very sound advice, some of us will be lucky to see 50k disposable income in a lifetime! For us, DIY, DIY, DIY is the only way. Lime, sand, linseed oil and timber are relatively cheap and are the answer to most problems, everything else is a luxury!

Whilst I would love to have a budget of 50k to spend on my project,all I can say is I don't but I shop around for the cheapest price timber and fittings etc, Builders merchants get to know your face and always give a good discount never be affraid to ask for a better price!
I purchased an old van for £900 because skip hire was costing £300 + a load, so three loads paid for the van! and the local tip is FOC.
I love Ebay, I have purchased original oak beams from there costing £180 for four 4.8 meter lengths.
3 stained glass windows for £49!
a stunning roll top bath with original taps £155
a stunning Black enamel 3 year old wood burning Rayburn that runs 12 rads for the central heating,cooking and DHW
etc, etc.....
The most expensive thing is labour so dont be affraid to get your hands dirty. Mr Angry has made all the windows for my Garden room for under £1000 including "K glass".
Don't be affraid to take on a period property, we need to save these beautiful old buildings for future generations

 

[FamilyWiggs]

All in all I'd say I wouldn't bother if I didn't feel I could get hold of at least 50 k over time...

:shock:
Joce, while this is probably very sound advice, some of us will be lucky to see 50k disposable income in a lifetime! For us, DIY, DIY, DIY is the only way. Lime, sand, linseed oil and timber are relatively cheap and are the answer to most problems, everything else is a luxury!

Whilst I would love to have a budget of 50k to spend on my project,all I can say is I don't but I shop around for the cheapest price timber and fittings etc, Builders merchants get to know your face and always give a good discount never be affraid to ask for a better price!
I purchased an old van for £900 because skip hire was costing £300 + a load, so three loads paid for the van! and the local tip is FOC.
I love Ebay, I have purchased original oak beams from there costing £180 for four 4.8 meter lengths.
3 stained glass windows for £49!
a stunning roll top bath with original taps £155
a stunning Black enamel 3 year old wood burning Rayburn that runs 12 rads for the central heating,cooking and DHW
etc, etc.....
The most expensive thing is labour so dont be affraid to get your hands dirty. Mr Angry has made all the windows for my Garden room for under £1000 including "K glass".
Don't be affraid to take on a period property, we need to save these beautiful old buildings for future generations

I reckon you're in with a shout for Post of the Year. Exactly the way many of us feel.

 

[LadyArowana]

I think Angrybird makes a good point. Either time + talent or £££ ! Whilst some DIY is probably just a matter of hard work only you can say whether you have the ability or not. I know for example that my dearest husband could be given the most expensive tools, beautiful materials and as many instructional DVD's as you could find and the results would still be a doggies breakfast :lol:

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Like everything, MiLady, it is a learned skill, and pratique makes perfect. Well, better anyway! I'm sure hubby could improve...

Those of us lucky to live in vernacular buildings can reassure ourselves that much of their Construction and upkeep over the years was probably undertaken by their owners, who developed and passed on their skills. We're continuing that tradition too. Although I have now learnt not to do my first fencing, wall building, pointing or plastering right where I will always see it.

As Penners always says, practice on an unseen bit first!

 

[LadyArowana]

Like everything, MiLady, it is a learned skill, and pratique makes perfect. Well, better anyway! I'm sure hubby could improve...
As Penners always says, practice on an unseen bit first!

If he practiced a lot and tried really really hard then he could maybe move from being utterly hopeless to fairly bad. Honestly you just wouldn't want to live with the results :lol: the rule is either I do it, or "a man" does it. After what has come to be known as the "unfortunate fax machine incident", in which he was charged with changing the plug, but managed to but off the wrong end of the lead ( yes, the preformed, fits into the machine, thing ) it was decided that access to the toolbox was forbidden. I knew his assistant at work was a wise woman when she had told him he wasn't allowed the pointy scissors. His brother is a surgeon and also good at fixing house type things, we think he took all of those genes!

 

[JoceAndChris]

Fab to read of the lovely sounding bargains and great to read of people doing it cheaper than the 50k ( actually more like 150k) I threw in the pot. I'd never want to put people off buying and saving a period property and even if they just make it watertight and stop it falling down that's medal-worthy in my book. Worms makes a good point about timber and lime and if you have a lot of time and ability you can do a huge amount for a place. My own house was saved on a shoestring in the 80s.

But - assuming this is a shared project - really have a think about whether living in a building site is going to break up the marriage/ partnership - you have to both want pretty much the same thing. I've seen marriages on the rocks with period properties - usually because husband is mellow and wife would prefer somewhere with a nice bathroom and kitchen and everything neat and tidy.

Chris and I would never have had the temperament to take on a wreck and I'm glad we didn't.

Also vernacular architecture ( rustic cottage) is simpler to DIY and get looking good. My house is polite architecture, as is Victorian town house and if you want to do it up with a vaguely authentic interior and appropriate amendments or replacements on the outside then you can spend a vast amount. 12 k just for scaffolding on our London one ( a flat in a 6 storey town house) - it all depends on what you buy.

 

[Rapido]

Thanks everyone for the great responses.

Went back for a 2nd viewing on the house this morning and still really like it but there is a LOT to do on it. Going to head back with a QS friend and get his advice on the major work and then as many have said on here, the cosmetic stuff can be done over time.

Thank for the idea on the costings - there are obviously sections that we would not be able to do ourselves and a few structural changes that we would want - just need to figure out if it works out financially as although you expect it to be a staying home, you never know what the future holds and we would need to at least come out even.

I'll update if we go ahead with it! Cheers,

Rapido.

 

[worms]

Also vernacular architecture ( rustic cottage) is simpler to DIY and get looking good.

A very good point. Vernacular & rustic accurately describes my DIY skills, which happily matches the property!

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Also vernacular architecture ( rustic cottage) is simpler to DIY and get looking good.

A very good point. Vernacular & rustic accurately describes my DIY skills, which happily matches the property!

Vernacular and rustic describes more than just my DIY skills! 8)

 

[plasticpigeon]

Like Angrybird I am not spending 50k on my house, although it is only a small 3 bed terrace not a 4 bed detached, but it could be a similar age to the one you are buying (around 1900). I am hoping to get it done for around 20 thousand, but that includes quite a bit of brickwork and I'm doing most things myself. Round where I am prices seem less for bits, for example doors £50 - 70 in good nick, or free from skips or £20 if needing striping. Victorian inserts maybe £200, slate surrounds about the same so the fixtures and fittings may not be too bad. However stuff like brickwork and plastering seems very expensive. If I could get a room plastered in lime for £1000 I wouldn't hesitate but around £2500 seems nearer the mark.

The two most important things I have learned is that everything takes a very very long time, if it it to be done nicely, for example even painting a sash window takes a number of days, but more importantly it is extremely hard to find builders that either know about older buildings and /or that work to a reasonable standard. I know there are a handful of passionate and skilled tradespeople around, some on this forum, but unfortunately not near me and I may not be able to afford the quality of workmanship I am after anyway. I got fed up in the end after wasting around 5 thousand pounds and have just accepted that I will have to do everything myself and do it slowly. If you are quite handy, are happy to do a lot of reading and learn a lot of new skills, and feel you have the patience and tenacity to see it through, then it can be a great thing to do. Personally I feel a bit overwhelmed but I carry on as I know it is the only way top get the end product I want. If however you don't want to get involved too much and don't know of any excellent builders, it will be difficult, and you may not end up with the charming end product that you imagine.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Very well said plasticpigeon and so sorry to read you feel you wasted 5 grand, but if it gave you the confidence to know that you can do a better job yourself then I guess not entirely wasted

Here's a breakdown of the stuff we really, really need 50k for which I hope will cheer people into thinking "well I don't need that". These are quotes I've got from good companies I'd trust and would include materials and work.

12 k -borehole and new pipeage to provide BC's first supply of continuous clean water
10 k - roof (to include many tons of reclaimed Swithland slate as our current roof is mainly asphalt with not enough slates arranged prettily rather than effectively - previous owner's DIY job )
25 k - to remove cement render from 4 facades, repair stone, repoint in lime and rerender in lime "lining out" to get flat surfaces, sharp corners, score to resemble ashlar and limewash. House is 14 m long, 6m wide, 3m high. Also removing York stone plinth and underlying cement and reset in lime. Also to sort out French drains at this point - which will involve breaking up concrete paths and removing - and then to put limestone slabs where there was concrete.
3 k - do something about the brick built underground rainwater chamber

That's 50, my other 100k would be spent on a small extension to create another bathroom/ dressing room (30 k) a new kitchen (30 k - agree with LadyA really) new bathroom (10 k) and then the rest on things like lights, furniture, paint, wallpaper, curtains and rugs. Fortunately we have a bit of a house coming our way to raise funds for the first list and the rest may well remain a hope rather than a plan.

 

[MatthewC]

Is there a reference guide, a full how to, or some book etc that gives a good overview of what to expect when doing up a property?

Like anything, Ideally I'd like to know or at least get an idea on how much it would cost to do certain 'parts' of a project to try and figure out a total.

It's a victorian property I'm looking at.

There is a Haynes manual on the Victorian House by Ian Rock. It won't tell you the costs but it does give a good idea of what to loook out for. See the Haynes website.

 

[Rapido]

So Itook my friend down the property who is a QS and he said it looks to be in good knick, mainly cosmetic but most important there doesn't seem to be any structural problems.

The big test would be if the rear area could take an extension as the kitchen really needs it for the house to work. If they accept an offer then I'll need to get a builder down to check it before doing the survey.

Does anyone know a site where you can found out when a house was built? I want to be sure of the period for the features?


Thanks

 

[JanJonWestWales]

hi, im in the middle of my "project". After buying it I hired a company to do a "survey" of the property. not a proper structural survey, more of a renovation survey. I would recommedn doing this beforehand. I used a company based in West Wales (because it was close to our newly acquired farmhouse) , but there must be similar busineses around you, and they may offer this service, It cost me £80 but gave loads of hints on jobs to do, priority areas(roof!), and things that might get expensive (beams!)
I used Horgan and Webb (Gervaise Webb)
http://www.heritagecrafts.org.uk/index.php/component/comprofiler/userprofile/Gervase241

 

[TheForge]

Unfortunately there's often no definitive way to date a house.

The older the property the harder it is to find a date when it was first built given the lack of records and the confusion of extensions, remodelling and later additions.

Unless you're lucky enough to have a date stone to give a clue, or detailed deeds, then it's a case of detective work. Visual inspection of style, materials and techniques should give you a basic starting period to work around.

Cross referencing this with old maps, tithe, parish records and census data can help narrow things down a bit.

Often the written evidence is slight at best and may require hours in the local records office.

Generally little exists before 1800 for your average house. Other than dendro dating structural timbers there not much else.

If you post a picture people here may be able to give you an estimate!