concrete floor - covering it in rush/coir mats?

[tycarregydwr]

Had another brilliant visit from a conservation builder today - thank you JohnB for the recommendation, she is aces! I need to process all the info and formulate a longer post about lots of things, but for now, the issue of the floor.

Our house has had a concrete floor put in at some point, probably in the 1960s. We have been told by 2 'conventional' builders and the 'damp specialist' that it is highly unlikely to have an integral DPM due to its age. However it is dry. Against, truly, all odds, but it is. It is level and in relatively good nick, a few minor cracks, and it does indeed appear bone dry. Much of it has carpet (not fixed down) and layers of area rugs, all of which are completely dry to the touch, and when lifted, the floor underneath feels dry, and damp guy had no worrying readings on his meter.

Two conservation builders have said, don't touch it. If it's dry, which it is, and you're not rich, which we're not, don't bother breaking it up now. But we can't just keep it bare concrete.

I had originally wanted floorboards just because I like them. I appreciate they're not authentic for the period but they look nice and are warm. It seems like we could lay 'floating batons' and fix boards to these. We have also dithered over the possibility of tiling. But the issues are that a) finances are limited and there are so many other things to do and b) it feels like we don't want to spend a huge amount of money and time right now especially on something we could potentially want to change/undo in the future (like if we win the lottery and decide to break it up and put in underfloor heating, or whatever).
So today I started wondering about the possibility of fitting the whole thing with rush or coir mats. Basically carpeting it with mats (but not fixing them down), and then using area rugs on top of those. I think this would make it acceptably cosy, and would be a solution we'd be happy with for years, but also would be temporary, in that if we want to make big changes to the floor later on there's nothing to undo. (And although I haven't priced this up, I have to believe it's cheaper than any more permanent flooring option.)
I know people on here have used rush/coir mats for example over pammet floors. Has anyone more or less covered a floor with them? Is this a crazy idea? If so, do you have a better one?

 

[AMc]

Two conservation builders have said, don't touch it. If it's dry, which it is, and you're not rich, which we're not, don't bother breaking it up now. But we can't just keep it bare concrete.

I completely agree - there are a number of places where non traditional materials have been used in this house and where they work I'm not going to consider changing them. One wall has been rendered in concrete quite recently, removal would be expensive and destructive and as the wall is dry and unexposed I have no inclination to even consider it.
Removal of a sound, functioning, dry floor for more or less "religious reasons" seems like a poor use of resources (financial & environmental). If you break it up you will be expected to excavate and insulate to meet modern regs and the very act of digging deeper down may cause problems with shallow footings on walls.

I wouldn't chose to fit a ceramic floor over an uninsulated slab as it will always feel cold. The insulated and underfloor heated solid floors I have can be a bit chilly on a cooler spring/autumn morning when the heating is off for the summer. The uninsulated pamment floor in the hall laid over concrete is always cold underfoot.

If I were you I would probably be fitting an engineered or solid wood floor over battens/floated or fixed over a self leveling screed and moving on with more pressing matters. If the floor is dry and has been dry for a measurable amount of time I'm not sure why you'd be worried it will not be dry for the foreseeable future.

To return to your original question - we had a flat with a section of woven seagrass flooring (fitted). We assumed it would be cheap to extend when we rearranged some flooring and were horrified at the cost - much more than fitted carpet. I believe that was more to do with the fitting than the material. If that's the route you want to go down then I would price up your preferred flooring choices and make a decision.

 

[JohnB]

Had another brilliant visit from a conservation builder today - thank you JohnB for the recommendation, she is aces!

I saw her last night and she said she'd been. Glad you were impressed .

 

[tycarregydwr]

I looked at Rush Matters yesterday as they've been mentioned on here before and had a minor cardiac incident - £160 per sq meter excluding fitting and VAT, so it would cost us somewhere in the region of 7K just to get it, nevermind fit it :shock:
Erm.


That said, cost-wise we come back to the sam conundrum with wood. I really do not want engineered wood. I admit this is largely for 'religious' reasons, but I just really, really do not like it. And wood is tricky - the affordable stuff is pretty dire ecologically, and the eco-sound stuff is astronomically expensive. I guess in an ideal world our preference would be for reclaimed boards. But.... wow. And then there's the issue of spending so much money, and a lot of time to fit it, and then if we do have any issues with dampness, it could all go horribly wrong.


Aaaaaaaaaaaand this is why we are unable to make a single major decision about the house :lol:

 

[AMc]

I looked at Rush Matters yesterday as they've been mentioned on here before and had a minor cardiac incident - £160 per sq meter excluding fitting and VAT, so it would cost us somewhere in the region of 7K just to get it, nevermind fit it :shock:
Erm.

:shock: :lol: :shock:

That said, cost-wise we come back to the sam conundrum with wood. I really do not want engineered wood. I admit this is largely for 'religious' reasons, but I just really, really do not like it. And wood is tricky - the affordable stuff is pretty dire ecologically, and the eco-sound stuff is astronomically expensive. I guess in an ideal world our preference would be for reclaimed boards. But.... wow. And then there's the issue of spending so much money, and a lot of time to fit it, and then if we do have any issues with dampness, it could all go horribly wrong.

If the floor isn't damp now, why would it become so?
I used engineered over solid because I have underfloor heating. It came from here though their range has changed since 2008.
http://www.vanillawoodfloors.co.uk/category/54-engineered-wood.aspx

Once laid I can't tell the difference. It's not like 3 strip or laminate. Don't be fooled by what you can see in Been and Queued et al - really not the good stuff.
The range I used was "distressed" a little before sealing at the factory so it doesn't have that mirror smooth look which is weird in an older house.
I ordered a number of samples, the few quid involved was a sensible investment before spending £1000's in two large rooms.
It was tongue and groove, went down easily and has been durable so far. A small number of boards had natural defects in the surface layer which we used as "cuts" so no real waste issue.

Reclaimed are also lovely, but more work to get to where you want them in terms of finish and fit and have potential pitfalls with quality unless you can inspect every board yourself. You would also want to condition them for an amount of time in the room where they'd be laid so that you weren't caught out by cupping or twisting as they adjust to the humidity and temperature in your room vs. a reclamation yard.
Have a look on http://www.salvo.co.uk/

 

[worms]

We got one similar to this from Ikea.

Ours was about 2m x 2.1m and at the time it was very cheap - one of the Memsahib's impulse buys that you regret when you get out to the car-park... :roll:

But it has served its purpose, is hard wearing and I would get one again (but hopefully next time it would not be when I have a car that is already full of kids and luggage and a couple of hundred miles from home!)

 

[piper]

I looked at Rush Matters yesterday as they've been mentioned on here before and had a minor cardiac incident - £160 per sq meter excluding fitting and VAT, so it would cost us somewhere in the region of 7K just to get it, nevermind fit it :shock:
Erm.

Oh dear, I'd been tempted by the rush/coir/seagrass etc stuff for the upstairs landing, but will have to reconsider. We have no money either.

And wood is tricky - the affordable stuff is pretty dire ecologically, and the eco-sound stuff is astronomically expensive.

Do you have a local sawmill where you can get locally-grown oak or similar boards? That should be pretty good ecologically, and maybe you could get them run through a planer for not too much money, and finish them yourself with a hired sander. The finish will be a bit rustic, but surely that's entirely suitable for your house, and would look wonderful with a few rugs. I have no idea really how the cost of that option would compare with engineered boards - reasonably well I suspect, though it involves you in a lot more time. I quite agree with you about not liking engineered flooring, it just wouldn't look right in a Welsh cottage.
By the way, Ty carreg y dwr means something like "Water Rock House" or House by the rock by the water - am I right? Engineered boards just wouldn't be right in that context!

 

[tycarregydwr]

Thank you everyone.

I havent been able to find any bespoke rush mats at a lower price, so that option may be out. Thank you for the Ikea link. This may be a medium-term solution, if we could possibly cut them to fit and bind the edges somehow - should be possible. At least then we're talking 500 ish quid rather than thousands and thousands!

I will have a proper look at engineered wood, get some samples and see if it's something we could afford and live with.

We do have a local sawmill with great eco-credentials (National Park woodland management). They don't list floorboards as an option but it might be possible, I will also look into that.

Tycarregydwr means Stone House by the Water. It turns out to be a bit posher than we thought at first glance, as we're discovering with the aid of conservation builders and old photos - not a cottage as such, it was possibly built by a fairly well-to-do mill owner. Going on age and style, it could possibly have had suspended timber floors originally, although it's not very likely owing to the location - by a river, with a high water table, in a fog pocket, and constantly pummeled by rain. And given that it's right by a quarry, one builder suspects stone would have been most likely.

 

[LadyArowana]

I think I have seen concrete floors dyed on one of those "makeover shows". We get a lot of US/ Canadian programmes, so it maybe something that is done there, not in the UK. If you are going to get a nice area rug or carpet that almost covers the room then only a tiny bit would be visible, so it wouldn't really matter if it wasn't exceptionally lovely, as long as it made it look a little more finished. 7K for rush matting sounds horribly expensive, much better to put money towards something beautiful. It pained me mightily to buy a bound edged seagrass runner for more than a nice wool one, but it was for a hight traffic area and I wanted a piece that would be good at trapping dirt without looking grubby. I have to confess I am totally biased in favor of non wall to wall carpets and had an "accident" just this week, think that has to be my last big one.

 

[Keith Bowman]

I'm probably missing something, but why the obsession with hardwood flooring? Straightforward T&G pine boards might be worth considering.

 

[MatthewC]

Have you thought of trying reclaimed parquet flooring? I have seen some at a local reclamation yard but have no idea how mch it costs - I'm sure it's less than the matting!

 

[tycarregydwr]

Keith, I have no obsession with hardwood flooring whatsoever. The only reclaimed boards I've got around to pricing so far are standard Victorian 6" pine (not T&G), I'd be perfectly happy with those if they weren't massively over budget.

Lady A - we will be painting the concrete floor in one room (the brewery, so it needs a floor that doesnt mind getting wet, hence the concrete is actually perfect, huzzah! But it's not exactly cozy for the living space.

MatthewC - I hadn't considered reclaimed parquet. I have no idea how it is usually fitted. Does anyone know how to fit it over concrete?

 

[MdB]

But it's not exactly cozy for the living space.

Oh I don't know. We have had a bare concrete floor in the kitchen for 4 years now...

 

[DJH]

Asphalt maybe? You wouldn't have to worry about damp and being dark and shiny would look good with rugs. No idea on price though.

 

[tycarregydwr]

But it's not exactly cozy for the living space.

Oh I don't know. We have had a bare concrete floor in the kitchen for 4 years now...

with the amount my kids fall over, this would be a very bad idea indeed!

 

[angrybird]

have you tried fleabay not too sure about the amount you require or weather your CO would approve but have a peek
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wooden-Parquet-Flooring-/290809848204?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43b59e218c&_uhb=1
Jacqueline x

 

[JoceAndChris]

I suggest a visit to a large carpet retailer and a good old chat. The rush matting at 7k is the stuff used in NT properties and has the authentic hand made beauty. It's absolutely right in certain properties, Plas Mawr and Isaac Newton's house spring to mind.

There are much cheaper hard wearing alternatives, check out

http://www.woodworx.co.uk/product.php?top_cid=4&cid=4&gclid=CKGgzrOd1LMCFanItAodljUAyw


Many so called fitted carpets can be sold as rugs if that's preferred and supplied with a bound edge. I just priced out a Brintons plain wool carpet, I don't want it fitted as there's a nice old wood floor in there - and they said 3.10 by 3.60 would be about £350 which I thought pretty reasonable, including the bound edge. I'd lay it on a non slip underlay mat and it would be fine.

In the case of a concrete floor though I'd be looking at fitted carpets on underlay laid professionally though a good DIY job can be achieved, Dad never paid for professional fitting. But if rugs are really really wanted then just painting the edge if the concrete in dark floor paint would disguise it.

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

Tycarregydwr,

What about something like this:

That's 12mm thick solid oak at under £20/sq.m. You'd need to lay something like 12mm ply first, then pin / bond the oak to the ply. We've done something very similar over concrete in our kitchen and it's been really good.

To my eye engineered flooring looks too uniform, too flat.

Andrew

 

[MdB]

That's 12mm thick solid oak at under £20/sq.m.

20mm thick is £35 / sq m inc vat at Jewsons of all places. We have lots of it and it looks lovely,

 

[Keith Bowman]

Sorry - perhaps I shouldn't have used the word 'obsession' about hardwood, but the point I was trying, as clumsily as ever, to make was that new pine is likely to be less wearing on the budget than oak, and probably just as typical of the period. I was interested to see that rush/sea grass etc matting need not be the eye watering price which had put us off up till now. Thanks for the link Joce.