Concerns around window repairs

[s13302]

Hello, I have been reading through this forum since moving into a period property recently and the information posted here has been immensely helpful. We are about to have some repair works done and I would like to kindly ask the community here for their help as neither of us are particularly knowledgeable on the issue.

The flat we live in is part of a Victorian townhouse and we are looking to repair the bay windows that are part of the living room. The outside of the windows is very badly weathered and cracks run along all of them. Two of the three companies I spoke to have advised to remove the windows from their frame and do the work from the inside. In their quote they state that they would "remove flaking paint and burn off where necessary, apply wood filler, replace putty where necessary, apply decorators caulk, apply primer, undercoat and gloss". The third company stated similar steps but would undertake the work from outside and without removing the windows.

My worry is whether there could be any damage caused by removing the windows from the frame, or if that could open up a host of other problems we would then need to deal with. The windows are very old and I don't think they have been touched in many years (which is where my worry lies). The person we are now considering said the windows would need to be removed in order to do it "properly" but as a layperson it's difficult for us to judge that.

I would be very grateful for your thoughts!

 

[Feltwell]

Is this a bay consisting of 3 sliding sash windows?

I suspect that they mean that they will remove the sliding sashes from the box frame, which is a very standard & easy thing to do, nothing to be worried about. There's a wooden moulding called a staff bead which runs round the inside of your window, usually nailed in place - and there's a strip of wood which separates the two sliding sashes, called a parting bead, this sits in a groove in the frame. They come out to get the sashes out, they may well break when being removed but are very easy to replace.

Are your sliding sashes in reasonable condition, and do they all open, top & bottom? That could be the only "can of worms", if they're painted shut and found to be in worse condition than thought when they are freed off. You can usually see pretty easily what state they are in before you remove them though.

Whilst they are out you should definitely get the cords replaced (I'd be surprised if the firms concerned didn't do this as standard) but you could also consider getting the windows draughtproofed by replacing the staff and parting beads for ones with brush seals - makes the windows slide better and stops them rattling in high winds as well. Wouldn't cost much extra if they were taking the old beads out anyway.

 

[Abi Cott]

If they are sashes I would definitely suggest removal is the correct method. Otherwise you're risking painting them shut or worsening the situation if they are already in that state.

A good company will recreate the beading in a matching profile if it's damaged on removal.

I've had two windows done so far they have been removed in their entirety, frame and all. I helped take them out. It was a much less destructive process than I anticipated. Removing the sashes was one of the early stages and even though they were seized they came out with moderate persuasion and the glass intact.

 

[MikeG]

Every time I read "primer, undercoat and gloss" on anything to do with exterior woodwork my (proverbial) heart sinks a little. When will we ever learn?

 

[88v8]

Every time I read "primer, undercoat and gloss" on anything to do with exterior woodwork my (proverbial) heart sinks a little. When will we ever learn?

Mmmm, but 'We' being the Trade, will always do what is cheap and expedient. After all, few of their customers will be sufficiently educated to insist otherwise and, let's face it, most people don't give a hoot about their windows so long as they are transparent and weatherproof.

Ivor

 

[Tc345]

Every time I read "primer, undercoat and gloss" on anything to do with exterior woodwork my (proverbial) heart sinks a little. When will we ever learn?

Forgive the ignorance, what's the better alternative?

 

[MikeG]

Flexible microporous water-based paints, such as Bedec Multi-Surface Paint. Even better if factory applied, of course, but given clean dry timber to start with these paints will last years and years without cracking, and then the quickest of rub-downs is all that is necessary for a new coat. New windows can expect their finish to last 15 to 20 years before any maintenance is required. Despite rumours to the contrary, there really are some aspects of modern technology which are better than their predecessors.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Any advice for decent solvent borne paints, water based don't brush out well and have very little build. I use them inside, where the wood is generally pretty good, but outside on old wood, oil based paints do a good job of filling up cracks and holes as they are high in solids, and it is much easier to get a good finish as it flows out properly.

 

[Feltwell]

I've been using the Bedec MSP recently and I'm very pleased with it. Yes, you do get more brush marks than with oil based, but you can still get a decent finish I think if you brush carefully in the grain direction. PP, when I've finally finished the bay window I'll post up some pictures of the finish I've got - I am using satin though, I prefer it to gloss. I have done a lot of sanding and a bit of filling because the wood was so rough.

They've got to cover original softwood, spliced in new hardwood and some epoxy filler over fixings - picture below shows it part-prepared - the pale green on the cill and the cream on the sash are the Bedec paint (not the green at the top of the picture - that's old paint still to be stripped off a sound section of timber.)

 

[s13302]

Thanks for all the replies!

We have decided to go ahead and have the windows removed, I will post before and after pictures in case anybody is interested (or if they are of help to anybody else in the future).

The bay window has three sash windows, which are very old - even the cords are missing (which were also quoted in addition to the other works). Hopefully it won't be too big of a job but I think it will be at least 3 days. In any case, thanks for putting my mind at ease, it's good to hear that it's a fairly standard and easy thing to do!

 

[a twig]

I use Sikkens Rubbol BL Primer followed by Teknos Aquatop 2600-23 for top coat.

It's brilliant. Never had a cause to complain on either softwood or hardwood, and the Teknos dries really quickly so if you do need a second top coat, you can do it within 3-4 hours, quicker if its a warm day (as I found when I was painting my windows).

 

[s13302]

A quick update on my previous post. The windows have been done and we are very happy with the results. I was quite worried about removing the windows from their frames but the guys that did the work were very professional and there were no issues at all. I think they did a really good job and the windows now look great (aside from the mullion, which is next on the list). Here's a couple of before and after shots:

 

[s13302]

And from the outside:

 

[fernicarry]

Lovely cornice and shutters. Tbh the befores didn't look that bad, at least not compared to some of mine...

Shame about the TV downlead though. Bug-bear of mine, I hate surface run wiring!

-Alan

 

[plasticpigeon]

What a lovely looking room, and looks like the windows turned out very nicely.

 

[s13302]

Thanks for the comments! (The TV cable has been bugging me too, but now that we've painted it white it's not quite as bad!)