Cleaning up fireplace

[tamsin]

Hiya,

We were given a fireplace today and I was hoping for some advice on cleaning it up. It was in a house that's going to be demolished, behind a gas fire. It hasn't been painted but it's a bit rusty. What should we use to clean it up and what do we put on afterwards? Also, this probably sounds stupid but should we clean up the back to stop it rusting away or just the visible parts

The two bottom tiles are cracked but all the pieces are there - can we glue them back together? I think they slot out, though they've been sort of wedged in with some plaster type stuff which we might need to remove some of to get them out.

There is also a crack, it's not very noticeable so do we just ignore it should should it be repaired in some way?

I'm also curious about was period the fireplace is? I'm hoping it will fit in with the date of our house.

Here are the photos:

Thanks
Tamsin

 

[DaveBrigg]

I've removed rust from a range using Liberon rust remover, which worked quite well. There are several suppliers online, although the price varies rather a lot. Personally I wouldn't worry too much about the back, unless it was so corroded that it was likely to affect the strength of the metal. I assume that it will be going into a dry environment. Most fires of this type still in use have never had any treatment to the back since they were installed. As for the rest of your questions, a lot will depend on whether you intend to light a fire in the grate, or keep it for decorative use.
A great 'find' by the way, I am sure that with a little tlc it will look stunning.

 

[tamsin]

Thank you for replying Yes, it will be going in a dry environment and it will just be decorative.

Apart from the crack it seems in good condition, not obviously corroded, just a layer of rust/grit/dust over the surface.

Tamsin

 

[Ian Bond]

Definitely try to repair those tiles and keep the original set.

Looks late 1800s to me.

I'd polish the iron with this once you've gently cleaned it up as DaveBrigg advised.

http://www.fluesystems.com/sundries/info/hotspot_stove_grate_polish.htm

 

[tamsin]

Brilliant thank you I can't wait to get started and see what it looks like done.

I definitely want to fix the tiles not replace if possible. I just need to know what glue to use.

Tamsin

 

[Lime]

The tiles are usually fitted from the top (behind) and slid down one upon another so removal is a reverse of that procedure.
They are often held in place with the aid of plaster of paris.
The tiles obviously need to be cleaned.
Don't be tempted to soak them in water as the soot will be taken further into the tiles where they are permeable.
A brushing then a dryish soapy rag or sponge will get off most of the dirt.
I'd dry the tiles then clean with meths on a cloth to remove any oil marks.
Using a glue to stick the tiles together is not always easy.
Most unsuccessful repairs that I have seen have been made far more difficult to repair by the glue previously used.
In many cases it is better to put a support on the back of the tile rather than glue the broken edge.
Plaster of paris can be used for this support.
It can be made stronger by using a fibreglass mat or web in the plaster.
It mustn't be too thick though as otherwise it will not fit back into the fire.
This method has the advantage of being able to be dismantled and professionally repaired in the future if so wished.

The broken part of the cast iron fire can cause more strain on the intact parts so be careful how you handle it, cast iron is very brittle.

 

[tamsin]

Thank you for the advice on tile cleaning. I've had a go and think they have come up really well. the marks that are left are where the dirt has bleed into the cracks in the glaze - I'm guessing there isn't much we can do about that? I think the worst of it is around the edge which should should be hidden again when they go back in the fireplace.

Before:

After:

We had to chip out a lot of plaster to slide them out so I think the metal support is wide enough to allow us to add a new plaster back to the back of the broken tiles. I presume the best way to do this would be to lay the tiles face down with a wood frame around and plaster over. Then pop them out the frame when dry?

Tamsin

 

[Ian Bond]

Abso-flippin-lutely brilliant job!

The cracks and very slight marking just give the tiles that patina of age, showing that they're the genuine article and not a brand new repro.

Bet you can't wait to get them back into the cleaned and polished surround now - and show us the pics.

Great salvage job too - what a shame to think of that lot going in the tip :evil:

 

[tamsin]

Yep, I can't wait to see it all done and back together I've put together a couple of wooden frames to do the plaster for the tiles, just need to pick up some fibre glass to mix in.

The rust remover and polish arrived this morning too. I've tried a test bit of the rust remover on a hidden part it was a bit anti-climatic. I was expecting fizzing and disintegrating rust but I guess it works a bit slower. Going to clean if off in a bit and see how it looks.

I'll post you pictures when it's done.

Then I might need a bit of advice on getting it installed. In all the excitement we haven't actually measure the hole its meant to go in yet

 

[Ian Bond]

May fit easily, may need some work perhaps to reduce the opening and backfill.

Hopefully, your house will have been designed with this sort of fire in mind, but you never know until you try.

With my house, the fireplaces have openings from 2.5 to 4 ft sq, and had been altered several times to progressively fit smaller grates.

Loads of help on the web, like this...
http://www.antiquefireplacecompany.co.uk/fitting.php

But plenty of people on PPUK will have done this sort of thing, and will hopefully offer advice if needed.

Oh, and where it says use cement in the instructions I linked to, I always use lime mortar instead because it's easy to work with and keep to hand in a tub for each job, as well as its more important benefits.

 

[shelli]

Nice job Tamsin - I love before and afters !!

Question to everyone generally - do you think it's possible to restore tiles like tamsins further without damage? I was thinking that it might be possible to a very fine paint brush and paint some white paint - something chalky and very fine over the white areas of the tile - as the soot has leached into the tile through the cracks in glaze wouldnt some whitening do the same by kind of osmosis and give you a cleaner look? you could then carefully wipe off the excess from surface of tile. Problem then though is what to use - couldn't be anything with any oil in it

I have kind of vested interest in this as picked up some old blue & white decorated tiles In Barcelona and might want to give them a facelift

Shelli

 

[michael]

For the cast iron bits, give it a general clean up then apply Zeebo grate polish. You can buy this in most hardware stores. It comes in a tube a bit like black toothpaste. Apply with a rag and rub in well then buff up with a lambs wool polishing pad on the end of an ordinary domestic hand drill. lambs wool polising pads are avaliable in most car accessory shops they're circular about 6" dia and tie onto a rubber disc which is an accessory for the drill.. with this stuff you can polish it to a shiny black or an intense polish will give it a silvery pewter colour.

 

[Ian Bond]

Can you still get the old Zebo stuff?

I've been unable to find it, hence my post earlier suggesting the Hotspot polish ...

http://www.starchsupplies.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=34

Stovax polish seems to still be about...

http://www.ukclassifieds.co.uk/stovax_black_grate_polish_zebo_zip_zebrite_black_lead-o32321.html

 

[tamsin]

I was thinking that it might be possible to a very fine paint brush and paint some white paint - something chalky and very fine over the white areas of the tile - as the soot has leached into the tile through the cracks in glaze wouldnt some whitening do the same by kind of osmosis and give you a cleaner look?

I'm just guessing but I would think the soot/dirt that had got underneath would just get pushed further from the crakcs so you'd end up with a dirty stripe then a white stripe from the new pigment you'd added. It's not just in the cracks it's spread out under the rest of the glaze from them. Here's a close up of some of the worst parts:

 

[tamsin]

Sorry, another question. I'm testing the derusting on the grate and I'm not sure how de-rusted I need to get it prior to adding polish. There's no rust flakes but it's still a bit rust coloured. Should I be trying to get it back to cast iron coloured or do I just polish over? The de-ruster says keep going until it stops turning white which it has.

 

[Ian Bond]

Not sure if this is a SPAB approved method, but after I got the worst of the rust off I used this to stabilize the iron before polishing....

Same stuff that I use on my (t)rusty old car - although the rust always comes back eventually.

Just need to get your maid to polish the grate regularly :wink:

 

[michael]

Zeebo grate polish readily avaliable in my local hardware store - 'Butlers' in Hastings. I would have thought you could also get it in the multitude of 'reclaimed fireplace' shops that have cropped up over recent years. Townsends in Abbey Road, St Johns Wood, London is a good one.

 

[Ian Bond]

Thanks Michael, I will keep my eye out for it though, on my travels - would like to compare results with the Stovax stuff I've got.

Perhaps they've got stock left over - everywhere I've looked tells me Zebo's no longer made?

 

[plumbers mate]

This fireplace (at the start of this thread) is exactly like the 3 in my house dating from 1891.
I was interested (and amazed) at the way those tiles were cleaned and repaired. They look blimey O'Reilly marvellous, don't they! Well done.
Is there anyway this can be done with the firplace in-situ? My front room fireplace had plain, horrible, dark cream coloured tiles fitted in the 1950s and they let the whole structure down. The fireplace and marble surrounds have never been moved so how did they do it?
I'm asking because I want rid of these 1950s "modern" cream things and ones that at least look late Victorian putting in but obviously don't want to remove all the marble and cast iron to do it.

 

[tamsin]

I'm pleased to hear the date on yours 'plumbers mate' as that's about the date of our house The tiles slot in from the top so I guess if you could lift the mantle piece off the top of your fire then you may be able to slide them out without taking apart anything else. I don't see how they' would have got the out from the front though without taking anything to part. You can see the empty side panels where the tiles usually sit in the pics below. There are groves about 1/2" on each side that hold them in place. Then they were plastered in from behind. You can see the plaster in the top two slots in the picture. We had to knock it out at the bottom to get the tiles out.

Here's an update on our progress. The grate's been de-rusted and had a couple of coats of polish (I think it might need one more on the centre bars as they are a bit red).

before:

after:

The fireplace is de-rusted and just need polishing. It's come up quite shinny & black looking already:

I think the red at the bottom might be change from the heat as the de-ruster doesn't seem to register it as rust and the same colouring was on the centre of the grate.