Chimney stack support

[Toms]

Hello. Currently thinking of purchasing a property and they’ve mentioned the chimney breast was removed by the previous owner years ago, with the remaining stack now supported in the loft. I’ve taken a look (see picture) and it seems the brickwork has been stepped back and a metal plate fitted. I presume this may be something that comes up on a structural survey? Does it look like it’s been done correctly or will I likely have issues with this? Any advice welcomed. Thanks.

 

[lizziecupcakes]

Hi, do the previous owners have paperwork for it, or building control completion certificate. Chimney stack removal us notifiable. The thing is, the vendors may say it was done a long time ago bur how do you really know?

I’m not quite sure what it’s meant to look like, but I imagined that a steal beam would have been used where the chimney stack ends, which is supported against the joists. It’s not obvious to me in the photo how it is being supported. Maybe others will have more experience.

Even the surveyor may recommend further investigation probably, as they are not structural engineers. My surveyor commented that my roof might be overloaded, but it turns out it’s not. I had to get it checked.

Either way, if it’s not supported well it should be fixable but might be a pricey job, but if left, it would be dangerous.

i would find out what I can from the vendor, estate agent. If you want the property still, you should still get a level 3 building survey and ask the surveyor to take a look at any areas of concern. If they mention an mu issue or further investigation, I would definitely write this to the estate agent and vendor in an email (that way it’s recorded and the estate agent must share it with all buyers). It will be a price negotiation point so fix it on move in right away, or the vendor fixes it with building control informed. I would insist in the latter because there mah be a mortgage issue.

Slightly similar issue happened with the previous owner having no FENSA certificate for new windows and door. The vendor had to get it regularised via building control which cost them about £500. it would come up in the survey and solicitors anyway so they did it to make the sale happen.

 

[stuart45]

That wouldn't pass Building regs. The least they will accept are gallows brackets, and then only in certain cases. If the wall's built in lime mortar for example they won't. Generally it needs a steel beam to load bearing walls underneath.

 

[Cubist]

That wouldn't pass Building regs. The least they will accept are gallows brackets, and then only in certain cases. If the wall's built in lime mortar for example they won't. Generally it needs a steel beam to load bearing walls underneath.

I thought it was fairly common practice to rely on the cantilever effect of the remaining brickwork below to transfer the bearing weight back into the main wall while using a retaining plate like that shown to ensure the lower courses cannot move. What seems odd to me is that the plate shown seems to stand off from the brickwork by a couple of centimetres. Or is that just part of a structure/device used to seal the chimney?

 

[Kearn]

The plate doesn’t look like it’s doing anything from the images.

 

[lizziecupcakes]

if deemed unsupported and dangerous, the property will be unmortgageable. The vendor needs it checked and fixed with documented proof and building control check. I would not buy this house without. Good luck

 

[Stevers]

Corbelling would traditionally step out no more than 1/4 brick length or about 2.25" at each course. The 'steel' looks like it might be intended to act as a lintel for the hanging face, but it should be considered for show unless it's on sky hooks.

The overal balance of the structure at the base of that 'corbelling' is probably the burning question. If there is a chimney on the other side of that wall, that would slightly improve the balance, but if not, the whole thing is very off centre and that's not good. If there was a chimney breast on the other side and it too has been removed then there's potentially a lot of masonry balanced on 9" of brickwork. A couple of likely lads that I met when I worked for Jewsons in the 80s told me of a chimney with both chimney breasts removed that would rock gently in the breeze. They gone up for repairs, but had been tasked with removing it once it was realised how unstable it was!

 

[a twig]

I reinstated a ground floor chimney breast in our old place after finding that stack was still in place from the first floor upwards (including a slate hearth hidden under the carpet in the bedroom above) and the whole thing was resting on a somewhat bouncy 2x5 joist and a bit of rusty angle iron poking out the wall.

Left it open though so that when it was finished it could become the world’s most heavy duty wine rack

 

[stuart45]

I thought it was fairly common practice to rely on the cantilever effect of the remaining brickwork below to transfer the bearing weight back into the main wall while using a retaining plate like that shown to ensure the lower courses cannot move. What seems odd to me is that the plate shown seems to stand off from the brickwork by a couple of centimetres. Or is that just part of a structure/device used to seal the chimney?

It used to be in the 70's. Before then it would be unusual to remove a chimney, but when houses started being built without them it became common practice in older properties to do this. There must be thousands of houses with similar issues. It wasn't until the 80's when they realized it was a problem and made this notifiable work.

 

[Gothichome]

What is supporting the steel Plate? As Stevers asks, sky hooks? I see no under pinnings or canterleverd bricks acting as a corbel

 

[stuart45]

It looks like a single lead lintel. I guess it was put in to support the central bricks and transfer the load to the jambs. It's not good enough to get through Building Control.
One of the main causes of failure is when the neighbour does the same. A chimney that's been like that for years can then become unstable.
Although a lot of people get told on forums that ' it's been standing for 30 years mate, I wouldn't worry ', I wouldn't accept that myself. Apart from the potential for the failure of the brickwork, if you want to sell in the future you could have the same problem with the buyer.