cement or lime?

[plasticpigeon]

Hello. I plan to put in some edgings around a couple of gullys to contain the overspill from the bottom of the downpipe. I will be using blue brick pavers standing on their long narrow side so the face that is normally horizontal will be vertical. I plan to fill under the gully with something harder than soil (cement or hydraulic lime mortar), and bed the pavers into whatever I use. Should I use a hydraulic lime or cement for this. I feel cement may be better as it is more waterproof, but then again, I don't want to put cement against the wall of my house between the paver and the wall. Any ideas???

 

[Penners]

PP, it might get you more informed suggestions if you could clarify the plan a bit - perhaps with pictures. How far will gullies extend, and to what extent are they actually in contact with the wall?

 

[Zebra]

I would personally use cement in this instance. I don't think that such a small amount of cement against the wall would affect its breathability. I assume this gully is not very big.
If your concern is that you don't want the cement to stick to the bricks and harm their faces, then you could put a bit of driveway fabric, roofing membrane, even newspaper in between when you pour the mortar. The mortar will conform to the shape you want without sticking to the bricks, and the membrane will rot away. Just an idea.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Ok I will post pics tomorrow, just a bottle gulley 6 x 6 with edging around and a couple of pavers with edging around to channel water from a sink waste pipe.

 

[plasticpigeon]

mistake

 

[plasticpigeon]

Here is the gully, one pic is of the one I am going to put some kind of concrete (lime or cement) around, and the other is exactly how the pavers will be laid around it, they are just paced on the earth in that pic to show the arrangement. My house might be a mess but the garden is looking a bit nicer this year.

 

[Penners]

I would personally use cement in this instance. I don't think that such a small amount of cement against the wall would affect its breathability.

Having seen the pictures, I tend to agree with our stripey friend. Frankly, given the amount of brick paving that apparently abuts the house, I don't think a small cement bed at this point is going to make much difference either way.

If anything is going to cause damp, I fear it may be all that paving against the wall. This could cause subsoil moisture to migrate sideways into the wall, and cause rain bounce and (unless properly cambered) run-off into the wall.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Well the wall isn't damp and never has been, so that's something to be thankful of! In fact I rebuilt quite a large part of that wall under the window and it dried out quite well after it was built. Yes there is a problem with the pavers being rather too level, but they are original to the house and I like them so I'm keeping them!!!I am going to have to take them up and lay them with a camber away from the house but it doesn't seem that they are making the wall damp although I dare say evaporation from the joints in the pavers will be slower than from bare earth. My fear was not damp as much as the cement sticking to the bricks and damaging them if there was any freezing or small structural movements. I think it will probably need cement to keep the vertical pavers in place and to point around the gulley and edgings to make it all waterproof.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I used lime by the wall and cement everywhere else. A bit more effort, but I hope it will be kinder to the house bricks.

 

[88v8]

Think you did the right thing re cement.

Love your garden layout.

That window next door must make you grind your teeth. Not a PPF member, presumably...

Ivor

 

[Lime]

I used lime by the wall and cement everywhere else. A bit more effort, but I hope it will be kinder to the house bricks.

It looks good.

May I suggest that you extend the down pipe through the grating to avoid splash and blokages?

 

[Penners]

Good point. You can get drain grilles with a specially designed push-out section that's the correct diameter for a downpipe.

 

[88v8]

Good point. You can get drain grilles with a specially designed push-out section that's the correct diameter for a downpipe.

Yes,
And there is a version that's fastened with screws specially designed to rust solid so one can't remove the cover when the drain needs attention.
For some strange reason, there was no visible manufacturer's mark

Ivor

 

[plasticpigeon]

Thanks for your kind words about the garden. We were lucky enough to inherit it in the form you see, it just needed a huge amount of cutting back which I have been doing over the last 2 years, and I have made the patio area bigger. I'm learniing lots about plants as I'd like to make a cottage style garden.

If you think the back windows are tasteless, then you should see the front bay, once very pretty with an arch in the middle, now a stone clad plinth, PVC frames, and a weird pitched roof above with no hips. It puzzles me why so much time, effort and money has been spend to make houses much much worse. The neighbours (both sides) are definitely nothing to do with this forum!!!!

Yes that is conundrum. If I make the pipe go through the grill, that makes the grill quite difficult to remove, which negates the point of installing a roddable gulley. I think if I make the straight section of pipe going through the grill long enough I should be able to pull the grill up the straight bit of pipe far enough to disassemble the joint and remove the grill. I've also seen the ones with screws that are made by the same firm that this gully is made by (Hepworth). Hopefully they have learned and made the screws stainless steel now.

 

[Penners]

And there is a version that's fastened with screws specially designed to rust solid so one can't remove the cover when the drain needs attention.
For some strange reason, there was no visible manufacturer's mark

Ivor

And that's why some bright sparks invented WD40 and Easyouts!

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-cobalt-drill-and-easy-out-set-prod462398/?src=froogle&gclid=cidf07o887gcfvmetaodxjmagg

 

[88v8]

The stuff for freeing rusted parts is Plusgas. Or Coke

And there is a version that's fastened with screws specially designed to rust solid so one can't remove the cover when the drain needs attention. For some strange reason, there was no visible manufacturer's mark
Ivor

And that's why some bright sparks invented WD40 and Easyouts!

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-cobalt-drill-and-easy-out-set-prod462398/?src=froogle&gclid=cidf07o887gcfvmetaodxjmagg

Ahh, Easyouts, those things that break off in the rusted screw. I have a couple of sets Minus some....

Oddly enough although WD40 is widely used to free rusted parts - including by me - it was actually developed as a rust inhibitor fluid for the US Airforce, to protect that huge fleet of aircraft they have mothballed in the desert.
The best stuff for freeing seized parts is Plusgas. Or Coke.

Also...
http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/easy-outs-and-left-hand-drill-bits-t70475.html

Ivor

 

[Penners]

Ahh, Easyouts, those things that break off in the rusted screw.

Ahh, one of those people who buys poor quality Easyouts!

:wink:

 

[Keith Bowman]

Much better than an 'easyout', or even a left hand threaded tap, is to drill a small hole into the head and wallop an appropriate sized torx bit into it, then undo with whatever socket fits the torx bit. More of an engineering thing than a period house one though!

 

[Lime]

Yes that is conundrum. If I make the pipe go through the grill, that makes the grill quite difficult to remove, which negates the point of installing a roddable gulley. I think if I make the straight section of pipe going through the grill long enough I should be able to pull the grill up the straight bit of pipe far enough to disassemble the joint and remove the grill. I've also seen the ones with screws that are made by the same firm that this gully is made by (Hepworth). Hopefully they have learned and made the screws stainless steel now.

That doesn't have to be a problem.
In this case I'd cut a hole in the grill the same size as the pipe (positioned precisely where the pipe meets the grill) and leave the downpipe in place.
That way you get the best of both worlds without too much compromise.