Ceiling question

[DaveBlair855]

Dear all,

Please take a look at the attached shots of our bedroom and spare room and note the height of the ceilings.
We are wondering if it is likely to be feasible to remove these and have the original vaulted ceiling which follows the line of the roof.
Can anyone shed any light on what the issues (structural, consential, etc) may be with this? I am assuming that the lower ceilings are a relatively new addition to the interior (so may be allowed from an LBC point of view as we would be restoring the original feature) but am happy to be corrected. Also, assuming we could do this any idea who would be required to do the work, ie specialists?

Any thoughts or experiences gratefully received.

D

 

[middi]

The first thing you need to do is to check within the loft aerea the type of roof construction.
1) purlings ( if any)
2) rafters collars and how are they fixed( ie. clasped and pegged or cheaper version nailed on)
3) a combination of the above and is it all original

If the roof void is original ( ie. not restructured, surface strenghtened or extra tie collars inserted for strength) then it is very simple( and appropriate) to expose as much as possible of the original structure as it originally would have been. Intuition on insulation is required if you wish to expose to the roof apex.

if listed , ask your CO first

 

[middi]

.........If you are not afraid to get dirty and dusty ( including the whole of the house unless you seal off the "wanted" rooms) get a skip ready over one weekend, a couple of days should be plenty to expose ceilings and clear all debris. Unless you are confident about your own plastering, get someone else to quote.

Don't forget about any wiring or pipework repositioning if required

 

[DaveBlair855]

Thanks middi- this is very helpful. Just a quick additional question to clarify-
Neither of these rooms (or the small landing area between them) have any access to the roof space above the ceilings. I would have to cut into the existing ceilings to have a look, which would presumably require consent?

 

[middi]

I dont think for one minute that the CO is going to create much fuss if you need to install an inspection " hole " to get access above ceilings. They are a later addition anyway.

A roof leak done some damage to the ceiling anyway, didn't it :wink:

 

[Nemesis]

I would certainly seek a discussion with the CO before making any plans and cutting holes.

The ceiling looks from the pictures to have been there a considerable time, and while making an inspection hatch may be deemed OK (as long as you can justify it and give details of how you will go about it etc) total removal may not be. It may be that the CO considers it's a part of the historic development of the building, and that stripping it back conjecturally to some earlier time in its history not acceptable.

 

[Cloudscape]

I would have a very close look at the black-painted beams. Some of mine have been filled with plaster to (at least visually) repair them. Your beams seem to have a lot of "character". A small inspection hatch only needs to be big enough to get your head, and a hand holding a torch, through it. The ceilings look pretty old to me, and the upper parts of the beams might be in any state, having been inaccessible for years. Some of my rafters are 50% eaten or rotten in places. The worst ones tend to be the ones that have never been on show.

How big (in cross-section) are your rafters? Do you have a plan for insulating the roof (presumably between the rafters, or under the roof covering?), if the ceiling is removed?

Personally, I quite like my (similar) ceilings. I have trouble heating the bedrooms as it is, without having all the heat rising to the apex, while the room stays cold.

High ceilings do lend themselves to some nice pendant lighting though.

 

[Tom]

Just a thought, and I'm probably way off the mark here, but with ceilings like this where you want to see and feel the height but don't want to lose lateral support or heat, would it be possible to use some kind of acrylic sheet (or similar) as a 'ceiling'. To support it, you could drill through and insert hangers, suspended from the upper rafters. For access, the whole thing could be propped up temporarily while cleaning / maintenence is done. Like I said, just a thought but probably way off the mark!!

Jaqy

 

[Feltwell]

Just a thought, and I'm probably way off the mark here, but with ceilings like this where you want to see and feel the height but don't want to lose lateral support or heat, would it be possible to use some kind of acrylic sheet (or similar) as a 'ceiling'. To support it, you could drill through and insert hangers, suspended from the upper rafters. For access, the whole thing could be propped up temporarily while cleaning / maintenence is done. Like I said, just a thought but probably way off the mark!!

Jaqy

I think the problem would be the cleaning - you'd have to do it far too frequently to be practical to keep it looking good. Dust, dirt and dead insects all seem to have a remarkable ability to penetrate what appear to be "sealed" areas.

 

[DaveBlair855]

I was thinking of lambswool for insulation covered with a lime render, but have concerns about the depth required for this to be fit for purpose. The roof is soon to be rethatched so there may be some provision to add an insultaing layer prior to this being done. I'm not sure of the exact size of the rafters, but I take your point about the fact that there is no way to tell how long they have been covered for or the state they're in!

 

[OLDCOLLIER]

Whether the CO will object to the proposal depends very much on the CO I'm afraid. The ceiling looks to be lath and plaster and will be of some age before the building was listed and in my experience COs are reluctant to have "history" like this removed if it is still sound. I'm currently working (replacement windows and some structural timbers) on a mid 16th century property with a ceiling like this that looks to be about to collapse onto the bed (!) because of failure of the wall plate and consequent dropping of the cross beam and associated ceiling joists. A 5.5 metre steel has been recommended by EH to support the wall plate and cross beam, which will entail the removal of the ceiling, which the CO has insisted be replaced with an identical lath and (lime) plaster ceiling, refusing to allow the opening up of the structure to expose the beams. Incidentally, the use of ANY non-original/traditional materials to repair any part of a listed building has been proscribed by all the COs I've ever had contact with, with the singular exception of stainless steel bolts. Any work of this type should always be referred to your CO, because it avoids getting hit with an enforcement notice and, depending on your local authority, grant aid is often available. The place I'm working on has obtained funding of 60%. The "basic" grant (although not all local authorities offer any kind of support) is the historic building's grant which can be up to 25%.

 

[Nemesis]

Grant aid? Hen's teeth usually, unless you are fortunate enough to get some from EH, which brings with it restrictions and conditions.

If you live in a National Park there may be some aid.

Few local authorities have a pot of gold.

http://www.alnwick.gov.uk/environment_and_planning/Conservation/listed_buildings_register/Pages/HistoricBuildingsGrants.aspx