Ceiling beam help!

[guitarust007]

Hi all

We’ve just uncovered this ceiling beam that was boxed in previously in our 250 year old cottage. It looks quite sparse! Should I be worried?! Views from side and beneath (revealing right through the beam to floor above!)

 

[Kearn]

Probably need some more context, dimensions and definition of ‘sparse’ in relation to what question you’re asking?!

It may never have been a spine / summer beam, merely a header to take a partition under as per the post mortice and stave holes either side… though that configuration could of course be from a previous life, if it was reused. It’s odd for the mortice I described to go through though. But then it’s odd to have a channel next to it, and the extra peg holes where they are. It looks like it’s been appended previously by at least one metal strap that’s visible.

Lots of questions really. What’s yours?!

 

[a twig]

Has the ceiling fallen down in the >100 years it has been being held up by this beam?Are there any recent signs of deformation or cracking?

If the answer to both is no then it’s probably alright then

 

[Kearn]

Has the ceiling fallen down in the >100 years it has been being held up by this beam?Are there any recent signs of deformation or cracking?

If the answer to both is no then it’s probably alright then

This would usually be my approach. Our current project is testing my limits a bit more though… the early spine beam here no longer lands on the gable (different longer story!) so rather than repair, the Georgians decided to add another spine in and replace one half of the joists, holding up the other side with a single wrought iron bolt. Thankfully some later occupants realised this error and added a small metal bracket with 20mm screws to keep things in check!!

I’ll admit this is one that’s being repaired. I’ll also admit some level of amazement as to how this half of the floor is still functioning, but I argue it’s been doing so since that blacksmith made a bolt way before our time…

 

[Kearn]

Has the ceiling fallen down in the >100 years it has been being held up by this beam?Are there any recent signs of deformation or cracking?

If the answer to both is no then it’s probably alright then

Hard to tell from the images, but that ceiling certainly hasn’t been there 100+ years, looks like gypsum skim on mesh. Also looks like it might continue over the top of the beam? Which would make me wonder if the timber is functional at all or just possibly decorative/redundant. I’m guessing the floor joists above are carried some other way. I can highly recommend the structural integrity of spiders webs …

 

[guitarust007]

Thank you for all your replies. I think you’re right - I don’t think it’s a support.
Is there anything anyone can suggest to fill in the gaps in the beam?!

 

[Kearn]

Not that won’t look more out of place than current I would say, but then I like to see the scars of past uses.
Historically, bits of brick/tile would fill the gap with lime plaster. But then they would have plastered over the whole beam afterwards, as this one once was based on the key marks across the surface.
Looks like someone has previously decided spray foam or similar was a good idea to fill the mortice hole…
Personally, I’d leave it be…

 

[Toby Newell]

If it's not structural you can fill with anything, otherwise I would let in a piece of oak and have a look at seeing if the straps are working properly.

 

[guitarust007]

Thanks all! Silly question but this beam doesn't look like it's been fire damaged has it at some point does it? I only ask as it's super dark

 

[Kearn]

Thanks all! Silly question but this beam doesn't look like it's been fire damaged has it at some point does it? I only ask as it's super dark

From what I can see, no. But that has obvious caveats!

Looks much like a dry surface coating, which if you’re lucky will come off easily compared to bitumen or other muck. Try scraping a section - an old chisel will do if you haven’t a scraper. The surface marks are a key for when it was plastered over.

 

[Toby Newell]

You will need a tungsten carbide scraper and or cabinet scraper, I have over a dozen, sharp chisel? Not so much, that is dangerous and would need sharpening every 5 mins. Chisels are great for removing loose bits, smoothing and cleaning holes.

It's very deceptive, the colour and 'cracking' looks very much like burnt wood, easy way to tell, scrape, their should be carbon, also scratch and sniff, although some coal tar smells burnt. Doesn't look burnt to me, looks like a lot of shakes and worm damage covered in coal tar. The horizontal 'cracks' look like adze chops often done to create a key before plastering, indicating it might have been lime plastered at some point.

 

[Toby Newell]

From what I can see, no. But that has obvious caveats!

Looks much like a dry surface coating, which if you’re lucky will come off easily compared to bitumen or other muck. Try scraping a section - an old chisel will do if you haven’t a scraper. The surface marks are a key for when it was plastered over.

Yes, anything sharp would remove some finish to test how easy it is to remove, but a chisel is the wrong tool. Also these beams are incredibly cracked, worn and worm eaten, no finish is likely to be easy to remove unfortunately, even if it was coated in poster paint, but agree, they look like a lower build to yours Kearn, which from the variable sheen looks like they could be coal tar.

 

[guitarust007]

Why would someone have put coal tar on them? I’ll have a go with a scraper and see how I get on. Is the coal tar usually fairly superficial?

 

[Toby Newell]

Why would someone have put coal tar on them? I’ll have a go with a scraper and see how I get on. Is the coal tar usually fairly superficial?

How old is your property? Try a search I have repeated this dozens of times, I really should write some new articles.

Beams were often limewashed from the 1400s until the mid 1800s (google search Lavenham buildings). Then with the industrial revolution we had several million tons of coal tar (think = bitumen = asphaltum, bitumen is naturally occuring but is very similar to coal tar, think of it as white spirits is to gum turpentine)

So we had to get rid of it, thus every house in the country was coated in it, ergo EH stipulates that is the only colour for exterior beams.

Victorian floors were coated around the edge of their unfitted 'carpets' with it, they laid the roads with it and made soap and medicine out of it, it's main industrial use was in the production of analine dyes, similar phenols were used as some of the first topical antiseptics and lead to drastic improvement in childbirth and soldiers with war trauma. Very useful stuff but raw coal tar is a carcinogen so you wouldn't really use it inside these days. The refined - carcinogen removed - version is still used today to treat skin conditions, people of a certain age will remember Vosene shampoo and Pears soap.

It's a b×××××d to remove but pretty amazing. Cheap, easy to apply, high opacity, waterproof and has anti microbial and anti pest properties, all in one, creosote is lighter distillate of it.

 

[Toby Newell]

See Kearns photos, they have a thick build and partial sheen, yours look dead flat. It's pretty smelly stuff, like a thick creosote, off gases for weeks, so when people wanted to touch up their beams they often reverted to paint. I strip beams as part of my work and it's not uncommon to find coal tar, black chalk paint and black oil paint in the same house, or even on the same beam.

 

[Toby Newell]

From the look of the age of your beams, limewashing them would be most in period, although they might have been plastered at some point.

 

[Kearn]

Thanks all! Silly question but this beam doesn't look like it's been fire damaged has it at some point does it? I only ask as it's super dark

Can’t upload a poc from our place, size is too big which I thought was a distant memory on this site! However, the cuboid cracking is indicative of rot plus black painting makes it look charred. I have exactly the same on a section of sole plate…

 

[guitarust007]

As in old rot that’s been covered up with bitumen?

 

[Kearn]

Yes. Or not necessarily covered up, just aesthetically painted over. Ours was painted black in the 60/70s - the rot pre-dated this.