Cantilevered timber in attic space

[kazzafrankie]

Hi there, we've just had a survey done on a house we'd like to buy (and have had an offer accepted on) in Glossop, Derbyshire. It's an old stone terrace like many in the area, and we asked the surveyor to look in the roof space because we thought we'd like to convert the loft at a later date.
We haven't had the full report back yet, but when I spoke to the surveyor he mentioned an area of the roof where a section of timber is cantilevered and is supporting some masonry above. He says it doesn't look like a new addition, and may be part of the original structure, but he would recommend it being supported at the unsupported end (!!).

Has anyone seen this sort of thing before? It's around 100 years old, and I expected some quirks. I am fine with spending a bit to prop it up later, and I'm mindful of the fact that the current owner has contentedly been living in it as it is for years! So I don't want to do anything drastic like pull out, because we love the house, and the surveyor said he didn't think it would cost too much to make the necessary changes.

We are in touch with a builder already about something else we'd like to do on the house, so I want to send photos to him and get his opinion as he has worked on lots of houses in the area...but wondered if anyone here could make any comments about this scenario, and how much it might cost to rectify?

 

[Gothichome]

I am trying to picture what you are describing, my first question is what are the bricks on the end of the cantilever holding up, the ridge beam? Do you have (or had) an over hanging tympanum (gable) What is he fulcrum for the cantilever? And how long is the cantilever? What ever it is supporting, if it could have been supported from underneath when built I find I hard to believe that it would not have been so from the start.
I know it’s early days for you with this home, a kudos for seeking out a period property, I look forward to a picture of this cantilever when you get the chance to get up there. My interest has been perked.
Ron

 

[Kearn]

We haven't had the full report back yet, but when I spoke to the surveyor he mentioned an area of the roof where a section of timber is cantilevered and is supporting some masonry above. He says it doesn't look like a new addition, and may be part of the original structure, but he would recommend it being supported at the unsupported end (!!).

If you need opinion and honesty from your surveyor, you’ll get it from conversation and not in a report which can be referenced in the future... so ask away while you can!

 

[Me!]

Has anyone seen this sort of thing before?

Yes in that cantilevered timbers were a normal method of Jettying the walls of timber framed buildings, so you shouldn't be too worried just at the word "cantilever".
There are still many examples that are standing up just fine after hundreds of years without any additional support being added, examples such as these.
However, I personally can't remember seeing a cantilever timber in a stone building.

 

[88v8]

Hello and welcome.

1920ish?
Quite modern then.

Depends on the timber and what's supporting the timber and the extent of the cantilever and weight of the masonry. Because something isn't 'normal' doesn't make it wrong.
And because something is not in accordance with modern standards, that certainly doesn't make it wrong. That line of thinking leads to the eradication of all quirks and character from an old house.

As Kearn says, talk to the surveyor, don't rely in his written report which will inevitably be arse-covering.

Ivor

 

[Feltwell]

If you need opinion and honesty from your surveyor, you’ll get it from conversation and not in a report which can be referenced in the future... so ask away while you can!

I couldn't agree more! As an example - a report I once had - "Signs of infestation in the timber floor structure which may warrant further specialist investigation". On calling the Surveyor - "It's furniture beetle, isn't very extensive and looks old and long since dead, maybe keep an eye on it for the next year or so but don't worry about it".

 

[Gothichome]

Has anyone seen this sort of thing before?

Yes in that cantilevered timbers were a normal method of Jettying the walls of timber framed buildings, so you shouldn't be too worried just at the word "cantilever".
There are still many examples that are standing up just fine after hundreds of years without any additional support being added, examples such as these.
However, I personally can't remember seeing a cantilever timber in a stone building.

It’s called a jetty you say, just learnt some thing new. I had not known the over hang on upper floors had a name. Being a medieval technique it makes sense to see it in a lot on mock half timber homes built here in the fifties and sixties.

 

[Monty]

Has anyone seen this sort of thing before?

Once, in a house where the chimney breast had been removed in the rooms below, and a cantilevered wooden bracket put in to support the stack in the attic which had been retained.

Something like this: https://community.screwfix.com/threads/worried-about-gallows-brackets-under-chimney-stack.176828/

 

[MatthewC]

Kazzafrankie

You don't say if the house is listed? If it is, that would be a serious consideration in proposing to convert the loft. My house is Grade II listed, and the loft has some wonderful trusses from 150 years ago; there was no way that I was going to consider replacing them with modern steel etc to add a small room. However, I'm still puzzled (and intrigued) by what exactly the situation is in your proposed purchase, since the surveyor apparently saw this while in the loft - whereas the jetties mentioned above are readily visible outside as part of the original structure.

NB Jetties not just a mediaeval technique - last summer I saw jetties used on Roman buildings in Pompeii!

Matthew

 

[george2019]

If it's been that way since construction I would not be concerned at all.

A mortgage provider may want a Structural Engineer to provide a report as well.