Can you name this switch?

[atlasfever]

Hello,

Can anyone name this type of switch? When I was a student in a london residence, I recall having this (though in brass). I found this photo, but don't know how you refer to this type of switch. Maybe it's not appropriate (building regs) anymore, but I kind of love'em.

I'm guessing they are expensive if found/vintage. Everything I like is expensive

Thanks!

 

[Cottage cosy]

They are called dolly switches.

http://www.theinternetelectricalstore.com/matt-chrome-toggle-light-switches-103-c.asp

A quick search suggests that modern versions don't have to be expensive?

 

[Lime]

TOGGLE SWICHES.
Not too pricey.

http://www.lumalighting.co.uk/Click+Deco+Satin+Chrome.176/VPSC422/Click+Deco+2+Gang+2+way+10a+Toggle+Switch+Brushed+Chrome.html?gclid=CP_il-mJ6LUCFW_KtAod9C8ASg

 

[atlasfever]

OH, wow, Thank you.

Odd, the prices are rather affordable. Are these not appreciated for some reason? Don't they look waaaaaaaaaaay better than regular ones?
I suppose one has to use the short knob version for the dimmer (twist a flat knob).

I think they look rather fabulous

 

[plasticpigeon]

I rather like the toggle dolly switches available.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Some switches for you to browse through.

http://www.shop.oliverslighting.co.uk/acatalog/Albany_Toggle_Light_Switches.html

http://www.bromleighs.com/acatalog/Period_Switch_Collection.html

http://www.jim-lawrence.co.uk/Node/4885/switches

http://www.periodhouseshops.com/catalogue.php?Plv=&P1=&Clv=2&C1=6&C2=36&gclid=CI-tvfLX6LUCFcrHtAodAX4AQg


You're lucky you have a flat, our switch/socket bill is thousands! Not there yet, it'll take years.

This will sound odd but in a Georgian scheme in my opinion it's better to pretend your switches and sockets came from the 20s/30s, (fake Bakelite) or to get contemporary ones that are very now. I'd avoid overtly Victorian design which is so at odds with the Georgian simpleness of line, and classical detailing.

We're going for these in the grander rooms

http://www.jim-lawrence.co.uk/ProductDetail/6504/2-Gang-Brass-Dolly-Switch-Bevelled-Plate

and the fake Bakelite in the more servanty rooms.

 

[Me!]

Looking at this link from Joce started me thinking -
http://www.shop.oliverslighting.co.uk/acatalog/Albany_Toggle_Light_Switches.html

Would it be legal to buy a few switches like these or similar and make your own wooden plates to mount them on?

 

[Flyfisher]

An interesting question.

Electrically, those switches are suitable (i.e. they' have the correct voltage and current ratrings) but they almost certainly won't be certified to BS1363 (or whatever the modern equivalent is) so they probably won't be 'recognised' as acceptable. Also, that switch alone inside a wooden pattress might not meet the flammability requirements of BS1363 (these things are not always just about pure electrical safety).

I'm not entirely sure about the legal position because, as I understand things, even under the latest wiring regs, it's still acceptable for DIYers to replace switches and sockets - though I doubt that flexibility was ever envisaged to stretch to DIYing the actual switch itself. So, a grey area perhaps?

Perhaps the acid test would be to find out if a suitably qualified 'competent person', or perhaps building control, would certify an installation containing such switches. I suspect they might be rather reluctant on the basis that they are not a 'standard' switch.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I don't know about legality, but if those toggles, either bought on a pattress already or sold separately, are earthed or double insulated I would consider them safe enough for my house.

 

[Owain]

Legally: the building regulations (in England and Wales) and building standards (in Scotland) require electric wiring to be to BS7371 or an equivalent standard of safety.

BS7371 requires wiring accessories etc to be to British Standards or harmonised Euro standards.

Unless you can certify your home-made switches to be compliant with harmonised Euro standards, they'd be non-compliant with Building Regulations.

An option can be to use the switches to control isolated extra-low-voltage signalling circuits which control the lights through relays or X10 controls etc.

Re plugs and sockets, all sockets for domestic use must be shuttered, so BS546 round pin can be used provided they are shuttered (older ones, and ones intended for theatrical/industrial use won't be) and the plugs have sleeved pins. Mains plugs and sockets must be polarity non-reversible so most European ones wouldn't be permitted, as well as being incompatible with our ring circuit system.

 

[atlasfever]

Oh, wow.

Well, those bakelite ones are so so so cool. Hmm. I will investigate if their are budget feasible. I'm going to have dimmers everywhere, so not sure how I would make that work though... let's investigate.

Thank you for the feedback and the links.

Just for the record, are these toggle/dolly switches considered Victorian? And are you suggesting that the bakelite ones are likely the first switch that was introduced before the toggle?

Thanks

 

[vicky whitworth]

Can you name this switch?

Yes. Dolly

Sorry, but I'm bored.

 

[Cottage cosy]

Can old bakelite switches be re-used or is it not possible to bring them up to modern standards?
We have quite a few of them, we even have the original bakelite junction/wall box (not sure what you call it sorry!).

 

[Owain]

In many cases it is not possible to bring them up to modern standards.

Most circular switches the lid unscrews by itself, and on faceplate switches the faceplate is held on with a ring that unscrews, without the use of a tool. That's not compliant.

Most are designed to be fixed on wood patresses (pateras, paterae) with individual wires coming through, which is not compliant as the connections must be enclosed in a non-combustible enclosure and the outer sheath of the cable must continue into that enclosure.

Metal lids and faceplates don't have earthing tags and rely on the fixing screws, which is non-compliant.

Old china, once the glaze has cracked, can become porous and lead to low insulation values. The dolly is often insulated from the contact cradle by a fibre mounting which can break down or become porous.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Just for the record, are these toggle/dolly switches considered Victorian? And are you suggesting that the bakelite ones are likely the first switch that was introduced before the toggle?

Thanks

Not suggesting I think toggles are at odds, no. I'm afraid I've no idea when they were invented. I find the fluted dollies a bit Victorian looking though
http://www.stiffkeylampshop.com/products/147-fluted-dolly-switches

You'll find ranges of sockets and switches called Victorian and Georgian, like these

http://www.socketstore.co.uk/information/victorian-sockets-and-switches-19.aspx?gclid=CNPv_Iug67UCFcrHtAodAX4AQg

http://www.socketstore.co.uk/products/brass/antique-brass/georgian-antique-brass?gclid=COb6rb-g67UCFfLLtAoduzUAqQ

They're OK, but I'm not a fan of either really. And with the cheaper ranges of switches and sockets the brass plating wears off pretty quickly and they can start to look really tatty. Also with the dimmers there is far less choice, I don't see how a dimmer can be a toggle, I think that's why we ended up choosing the Jim Lawrence ones and I must say Jim Lawrence never disappoints.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Just in case anyone is interested, those dollys from stiffkey's are made by an australian company called clipsal. They are available elsewhere for around £20 each. I have bought quite a few except not jellymould like the one above but with a plain domed top. The connections are all into a moulded plastic connector that fits into the ceramic base. The toggle is also plastic with a metal cap. The ceramic and brass tops are just covers really. If the top is spun off no connections are visible. I don't know if they're compliant but they seem safe to me and seem the best compromise. I'm going for these because I like them, and although I know my house had gas lighting, these late Victorian/Edwardian style switches are the style my house would have had if it had electricity at the time it was made. there was even an old switch in the pantry that looked just like those. I imagine bakelite came a little later.

 

[Keithj]

Search as I might, I've not been able to find any Tudor light switches that I like.

I gave up and went for modern white hard plastic ones. They are simple and functional, and in keeping with their time - like the rest of the house. If I were doing it again I wouldn't have visible switches at all, but that would be a big step starting from here.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I suppose these must be the closest thing.