Can I tile my walls?

[michael]

My 1880 home has a variety of internal finishes mainly comprising of Lath lime plaster stud walls, lath lime plaster on brick and lime horsehair on brick.

I am toying with the idea of tiling or part tiling a few areas of wall where water spillage is possible e.g. splash back in kitchen, toilet /wash hand basin areas and I would also like to convert an existing toilet / laundry room into a toilet /bathroom complete with wet room shower.

I am aware that there are material compatibility/ breathability issues on period properties and so I thought I had better seek advice first.

Would it be unwise to tile the type of walls described above? Tiling was not uncommon in some period properties, I’m thinking of those heavy glazed green, white or brownish red tiles that were found in Victorian kitchens, dairies, pie & mash shops, public toilets and underground stations. Some of these I realise were glazed bricks but where tiles were used what type of surface/finish were they applied to? Also, what would have been used for adhesive and grouting back then and are there any compatible modern tile adhesives?

 

[CHRIS]

I think the flexible types that you use on timber framed sub floors will be ok. Then use the flexible grout

http://www.bal-adhesives.co.uk/bal/bal_products/fastflex.asp or similar

http://www.bal-adhesives.co.uk/bal/bal_products/superflex_wall.asp

Just make sure that the wall will hold the weight of the tiles you intend to use (Heavy trendy stone etc) so that you dont come down the next day only to find the wall tiles are now floor tiles!!!

There is only 1 Pie shop and that is Kellys on the Roman road - since 1915 - makes me hungry thinking about it!

 

[Nemesis]

My favourite - the Howard Arms Carlisle

http://www.tilesoc.org.uk/images/wpe77249.gif

http://www.tilesoc.org.uk/locations_gallery.htm

Used to have better pics - my fav part of the frontage is the bit which simply says BEER.

http://www.tilesoc.org.uk/britpubs.htm


More links:

http://www.britishbricksoc.free-online.co.uk/links.htm

 

[MdB]

 

[Nemesis]

That's my desktop pic...

That facde had a makeover and it was damaged when 'lovely' new frontage was added to cover it.

Thankfully the damage wasn't too great, and it's anow uncovered again.

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

So much depends on the strength of your existing plasterwork. Sound areas on brick background shouldn't give any trouble. Lath & plaster walls could be a very different story - lots of mine was depending on structural wallpaper to keep it togther and tiling would have been out of the question.
If you're just doing small areas like a basin splashback perhaps you could screw a panel of thin material (fireproof board? masonite? I don't know the technical name for it) through into the studding and then tile on top of it. A wooden moulding could be used to hide the edges and conceal the extra thickness.

 

[CHRIS]

If you're just doing small areas like a basin splashback perhaps you could screw a panel of thin material (fireproof board? masonite? I don't know the technical name for it) through into the studding and then tile on top of it. A wooden moulding could be used to hide the edges and conceal the extra thickness.

You can use Aqua panel or Wedi boardhttp://www.wedi.co.uk/wetdirect.phpas it is made to accept tile adhesive and can be fixed to walls by using some large very thin washers (50mm d http://www.wedi.co.uk/fixings1.php ), it also bends very slightly so will be good on Lath and plaster (this is what I used and is great). If you have a slightly wavey wall use mosaic tiles to hide this fact as large ones will look rubbish

 

[Ian Bond]

Those washers look ideal for lath and plaster repairs (am assuming they're stainless steel?)

For tiling splashbacks and bathrooms, as opposed to wetrooms, I'm going to use modern adhesives and ordinary tiles straight onto the lime plaster, providing it's firm enough.

No point worrying unduly about breathability of a small area that's going to be covered in ceramic tiles is there?

 

[michael]

So if I were to tile a complete wall or a complete room using modern waterproof tile adhesive and grout there would be no detrimental effects, breathability etc?

Isn’t Manzies pie and mash shop in Bermondsey S.E. London still there? I seem to remember that had a tiled interior and the furniture comprised of long plain wooden benches and tables that you had to share with others. All very crude. I always remember when the corner of a workmans donkey jacket dipped into my eel and parsley liquer when he leant over to get the vinegar bottle.

 

[Flyfisher]

structural wallpaper

What a lovely phrase. We've got lots of this but I didn't know the correct architectural term for it

 

[Ian Bond]

So if I were to tile a complete wall or a complete room using modern waterproof tile adhesive and grout there would be no detrimental effects, breathability etc?

Well, the tiled areas won't be 'breathing' at all. The moisture will have to go elsewhere, and I'd have thought some would condense on the cold tiles.

Perhaps with good extraction/ventilation you won't get condensation problems.

Wet rooms are not something I know about I'm afraid. But it sounds like challenge to get a perfectly sealed room in an old house, with wobbly walls, and perhaps suspended timber floors.

How are the external walls constructed? Are you worried that rain water will be somehow evaporate less quickly due to the internal tiles?

What's wrong with a tin bath in front of the fire?

 

[CHRIS]

So if I were to tile a complete wall or a complete room using modern waterproof tile adhesive and grout there would be no detrimental effects, breathability etc?

Isn’t Manzies pie and mash shop in Bermondsey S.E. London still there? I seem to remember that had a tiled interior and the furniture comprised of long plain wooden benches and tables that you had to share with others. All very crude. I always remember when the corner of a workmans donkey jacket dipped into my eel and parsley liquer when he leant over to get the vinegar bottle.

Goddards was the oldest but closed in 2006 (it moved from Deptford to Greenwich at some point in time), Manzes is now a chain - it even has one in Sutton but it is not a patch on Kellys.

With regard to the full Tile job I would use that backer board and a good extractor fan to give you the best chance of keeping it dry, you could use an electric UFH mat to help dry the room as it works very well in my bathroom

 

[Nemesis]

http://www.manze.co.uk/

 

[michael]

I guess what I’m worried about is not the steam, condensation, water etc in the bathroom, as the lime wall or walls will be completely protected and sealed off from this form of moisture by the tiles themselves plus the waterproof tile adhesive and grout.
What is more of a concern to me is if the wall is made completely air tight by the tiling, what will be going on behind the tiles? Will I, to my detriment, be upsetting the breathability and equilibrium of the original design? As you well know, people cause merry hell on this website just by using emulsion paint on lime walls let alone tiling them.

 

[Ian Bond]

If the plaster is level, firmly bonded, and not covered in flaky or peeling paint then it should tile OK.

I intend to tile over lime plaster in my bathroom, but just around bath and basin - not entire walls. However, this is an aesthetic decision. My house is an old vernacular cottage, with undulating plaster that I prefer to keep exposed. Completely tiling a room would not look right in this instance.

However, it may work well in your house - each case is different.

I removed some 40 year old tiles from the walls of my bathroom (half tiled on 2 walls) and the plaster was in good condition underneath, if that's any reassurance.

 

[michael]

Thanks everybody. I feel a bit more reasured that I'm not wilfully doing damage to my property.
Does anybody know where you can get good reproduction Victorian tiles with a similar smoky green patina to that shown in MdB’s Beer picture above? Brick size tiles would be preferable? I would also be looking for the heavily embossed dado rail tiles to match. All the tiles displayed on the reproduction tile websites that I found on Google look a bit naff by comparison.