Can I leave a stone floor untreated?

[Tom]

This floor is driving me mad!! :evil:

Background: I have laid a stone floor over a breathable substrate (LECA/Limecrete) and am looking for a suitable breathable finish. The floor covers the whole of the downstairs roms. I've done some testing on spare flag offcuts and am not happy with the results. The flags are blue, matching the walls that are Blue Lias. One coat of Liquid Beeswax turns the stone grey but gives a slight sheen. One coat of Linseed Oil leaves the stone darker grey with no sheen at all. I would like to achieve a sheen if I can but it's not crucial. Also, I'm concerned that wax or oil may leave it non-breathable.

I don't think I'm going to find a finish that will not change the flags to grey whilst giving some level of protection and remain breathable. I think I'm asking the impossible! So, can I leave it untreated, dealing with any spills etc. immediately? Or would this be totally impractical? And, how would a floor like this have been dealt with historically?

 

[Lime]

Historically most stone floors would have been left or cover in simple materials like straw.
Milk (goat) is an old treatment for sealing floors.
But if you expect the floor to remain in the untouched just put down condition I think you are in for a disappointment.

 

[Tom]

I don't mind it not looking like its just gone down but I do want to retain the blue colour. Do you think that's possible? I have seen old blue lias floors that still look blue but I don't know how that's been achieved.

 

[Moo]

I have seen old blue lias floors that still look blue

If you can remember where, just march in and ask how it's done.
If you can't, keep the floor covered (rugs?) until you come across another one you like and ask the owner/caretaker.

 

[robgil]

correct me if i am wrong but flag stones are not very porous anyway are they? surely any moisture will do what water does and go by the way of least resistance , i.e. through the grouting?

 

[JoceAndChris]

I had to pour litres and litres of Liberon stone floor sealer into my flagstones to seal them, it was just like pouring it into sand. In the end, they passed the drop of water test ( the water sitting like a bead on the flagstone), and then I could proceed with the wax.

 

[Tom]

@ Moo.....I can remember where the flags were. In a barn that was 'restored'. Now that really was a disaster of major proportions....including taking the flags out

@ Rob.....These flags are extremely porous, along the same lines as Joce's. I tried a very, very thin coat of oil on a sample today and you could see on the side that it had gone down by 1/4 ".

 

[citizensmith]

Are you sure they are true "Blue Lias" Flags? Blue Lias is a Limestone, should fizz when HCl is dropped on it. As a Limestone it may vary in quality and have a certain a mount of sediment within it, but is essentially crystalline in texture. This means it should only exhibit secondary porosity/permeability via joints and cracks and bedding planes and not through the rock itself. As only the hardest (and as a limestone we are talking nothing like as hard as sandstone flags), densest and therefore most crytalline Lias would be suitable for flags i am surprised it is very porous at all.
I am just "chipping" in as a rock pedant. I like them all they are all lovely!

 

[Gervase]

Historically a floor like that would simply have been left untreated and simply swept and sanded, the sand acting as a scourer to get rid of surface marks. I looked at a slate flag floor recently where someone had invested huge amounts of labour waxing and polishing the stones until they shone and it looked horrible, as well as being a lethal slip risk.
If you really want to seal the floor, then skimmed milk is a traditional technique - though with modern heating you can expect the house to take on a permanent whiff of sour cheese. Casein (available from stores as a limewash additive) will achieve a similar effect with less smell, but any threatment is going to darken the stone.

 

[Tom]

Are you sure they are true "Blue Lias" Flags? Blue Lias is a Limestone, should fizz when HCl is dropped on it. As a Limestone it may vary in quality and have a certain a mount of sediment within it, but is essentially crystalline in texture. This means it should only exhibit secondary porosity/permeability via joints and cracks and bedding planes and not through the rock itself. As only the hardest (and as a limestone we are talking nothing like as hard as sandstone flags), densest and therefore most crytalline Lias would be suitable for flags i am surprised it is very porous at all.
I am just "chipping" in as a rock pedant. I like them all they are all lovely!

What HCI? Hydrochloric-something? Where would I get it from to do a test?

 

[Tom]

Historically a floor like that would simply have been left untreated and simply swept and sanded, the sand acting as a scourer to get rid of surface marks. I looked at a slate flag floor recently where someone had invested huge amounts of labour waxing and polishing the stones until they shone and it looked horrible, as well as being a lethal slip risk.
If you really want to seal the floor, then skimmed milk is a traditional technique - though with modern heating you can expect the house to take on a permanent whiff of sour cheese. Casein (available from stores as a limewash additive) will achieve a similar effect with less smell, but any threatment is going to darken the stone.

If we were planning on wearing shoes in the house, the sand idea wouldn't be bad to do a natural polish over time. However, since we've installed the luxury of UFH and I don't want to be constantly cleaning the floor, we won't be wearing shoes. I don't want them to shine either, like you say because of the risk but also because I think it can look 'false'. I don't mind a soft sheen, as you'd probably get after many years of sand polishing, as I think that looks rather nice.

If I used casein, would the floor still be breathable? If so, I'll buy some and do a test. Thanks, Gervase.

 

[rebeccac]

If you make up some milky tea and pour it on to the flags then mop over the surface that gives a slight sheen but not too noticeable - I so agree about varnished /highly waxed floors - in Abruzzo we have brick floors one on earth and most people with similar floors give then a horrible wax or varnish gloss.

 

[citizensmith]

HCl = Brick Acid/patio cleaner, though i would not think it a good idea to test it neat as sold in the container, but if you have a spare bit of stone not in the floor then it should fizz like crazy.
Personally, i think the patination gained over time with footfall and spillages and cleaning up afterwards is fine and you just cant rush that.

 

[Tom]

Thanks, CS. I'll get some and do a test. I'm inclined to agree with you that a natural finish built up over years is lovely but if I can just give it a little protection it would be nice to. However, if that's not possible, I'll just have to keep hubby away from the red wine :roll: :lol:

 

[Tom]

Rebecca, I'll give this a try later. It's a good job we have loads of flags left over to do all these tests on

 

[MdB]

HCl = Brick Acid/patio cleaner, though i would not think it a good idea to test it neat as sold in the container, but if you have a spare bit of stone not in the floor then it should fizz like crazy.
Personally, i think the patination gained over time with footfall and spillages and cleaning up afterwards is fine and you just cant rush that.

Vinegar would do the same job and is a bit easier to get hold of...

 

[citizensmith]

Vinegar may not visibly "fizz". Another possible Limestone tester is descaler solution as used for kettles etc.

 

[Ushy M]

[ I don't mind a soft sheen, as you'd probably get after many years of sand polishing, as I think that looks rather nice.

We have slate tiles in the modern kitchen of our house. They weren't our choice but were already there with UFH heating beneath - electric type. We turned it on the first winter we were there as the house was absolutely freezing and turned it straight off again when we got the electricity bill! Our floor surface was already sealed so not sure how you go about that, but for maintenance I find that cleaning with the Ecover Floor soap gives a nice finish (as well as the lovely linseed smell) and for day to day - and for reasons I don't understand - sweeping with a rubber broom is not only anti-static when sweeping up after two exceptionally hairy cats, but imparts a soft sheeny finish.

 

[Tom]

Our floor surface was already sealed...

I don't want to seal mine though, as the floor is breathable so needs moisture to pass through it. Fortunately, our UFH is a wet system run by the Rayburn which is on constant tickover. I can imagine an electric system being quite expensive, though.

 

[Wren]

I think it is counterintuitive to believe that you can seal a floor and then it will still be breathable (an oily coating that repells water, hmm...). If you like the rustic look then you could try to learn to love the unsealed look, and this is my approach. I think this is not so ridiculous for most downstairs rooms, my only hesitation would be in taking this approach in the kitchen, as kitchen floors are the quickest to get dirty. Mind you we also have the original huge stone hearth in front of the cooker in the kitchen and I wouldn't bother to seal that either.

(I do know someone who managed to seal his stone floor with some artificial product that didn't seem to darken it or make it too shiny, but then I don't imagine that his floor is remotely breathable as a result and so have left well alone.)

Another thing to bear in mind is that I know some one with a terracotta kitchen floor which you use floor sealer on, but then there seems to be alot of faffing around with re-doing it every few years.