CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN!!!

[amandag38]

hi there
please can someone explain a couple of things to me in laymans terms if possible;

1. why do modern timber frame buildings not require the use of lime and breathable materials to stop the frame rotting, as in older buildings,

2. is it ok to use normal plaster board and plaster between beams say for example in a ceiling, ie does the breathable materials just need to be used on out side walls.

3.what options are available for flooring in a timber frame cottage, we have dug out the floor to approx 200mm below the sole plate, ideally we would like underfloor heating but with an oak floor finish, this appears to go against the grain of then having a breathable floor apparently, because the oak would be sealed, please correct me if im wrong, also i would like to salvage some of the 200mm to allow extra head height or should i go down further. we are also lowering the external levels the same. Does the floor still need to be breathable this low below the timber,

4. eventually we will be internally and externally re plastering the whole house, so we felt the best bet would be to buy the lime by the tonne (not tubs) mix and leave to cure, can this be stored in say black bins, and for how long,

5. also when using bulding boards, would this then require one skim coat of lime or still the three coats like lathe.

i know all these questions have been answered im sure, but when i try to search its says theres nothing matching, or those that do do not specifically apply,
so i appologise in advance, and thanks, i find i am reading so much and getting so many differing opinions that im getting bogged down and waylaid from the original questions.

 

[skier-hughes]

1. Don't they?
2. You can do, internal walls don't need to breathe as such as they are not getting wet and drying like an external wall being exposed to rain etc, apart from say a bathroom.
3. Why seal the floor? I've not done UFH, but think you may need a greater depth just for this, you should find many posts searching for underfloor heating.
4. You can do this, keep the putty covered by water and you can keep it for ages.
5. One

 

[amandag38]

thankyou
however as for question one, we are having a timber framed extension, where the architect has stipulated normal cement render, normal insulation, and normal plaster, i suppose the extension wont last that long then, :?

 

[biffvernon]

6. No need for the 'e'.

 

[amandag38]

ok sorry biffvernon, i dont get it "e" i did ask for layman terms i must be having a blonde moment :roll:

 

[DaveBrigg]

Nope, not a blonde moment. :lol: the extra 'e' near the end of your first post changes a strip of wood for plastering onto into a wood or metal working machine. An error that more than one poster on this site can admit to
I know very little about underfloor heating, but out of interest, if you have dug out the internal floor to 200mm below the sole plate, and the same on the outside, what is the sole plate resting on at the moment?

 

[amandag38]

oops thanks dave i get it

the timber frame is built onto a flint wall, when we bought the house the gable end was exposed as the sole plate had rotted so this gave us the confidence to start to dig out round the rest of the house, we are doing this in sections and replacing the sole plates as we go, also doing some underpinning of the wall just to give it extra support. I think over the years the internal and external floor levels have been raised anyway and filled with concrete which we are also breaking out, and replacing with gravel outside and limecrete (ish) internally.

 

[biffvernon]

ok sorry biffvernon, i dont get it "e" i did ask for layman terms i must be having a blonde moment :roll:

And back in the good ol' days, there was a regular poster known as P. Edant, who would have been rude enough to point out the correct usage of capital letters and apostrophes and the spelling of 'blond', but we now live in liberal times when mangling of English is as acceptable as uPVC windows.

 

[Nemesis]

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Re: CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN!!!
by biffvernon on 20 Jun 2008 06:40

amandag38 wrote:
ok sorry biffvernon, i dont get it "e" i did ask for layman terms i must be having a blonde moment

And back in the good ol' days, there was a regular poster known as P. Edant, who would have been rude enough to point out the correct usage of capital letters and apostrophes and the spelling of 'blond', but we now live in liberal times when mangling of English is as acceptable as uPVC windows.

biffvernon

Pots, kettles at times B.Vernon... so watch it or in future you may be hoist by your own petard.

blond or blonde
Spelling: use blond if you are writing about a boy or a man, and blonde if writing about a girl or a woman.

© From the Hutchinson Encyclopaedia

 

[christianb]

Hi Amandag38.

Ok, here goes...

1. There should be no issue of a rotting frame on account of (a) an effective damp proof course with no bridging, (b) the use of breather felt on the outside face (usually on WBP ply). There should be a gap between the inner leaf of the timber frame construction and the outside - which could be block, brick or expanded metal lath as a support for lime/cement based render.

2. Without seeing your plans it's impossible to say. But I'd strongly recommend avoiding the use of standard plasterboards for new-build ceilings - a vapourcheck plasterboard helps avoid moisture buildup on the roof trusses. Alternatively, you could pay a fortune for slate vents to allow the escape of moisture.

3. Not sure. Simplest method is usually to apply a 60mm+ screed, insulation and whack the boards on top.

4. Making your own lime putty using hydrated lime is something I do regularly - and I've had as good a result as buying ready mixed slaked lime putty but for 10% of the cost. Usually leaving it for a week to "fatten up" is best, and it only gets better and more workable the longer you leave it (but don't let it dry out!!).

5. Applying lime to boards ( I presume you mean plasterboard) is like trying to nail a jelly to the ceiling unless you use fine sand. This, in turn, tends to mean the plaster is a little weaker than if you used a coarser sand. Personally, I've used expanded metal lath to good effect, although some say that lime corrodes the galvanised mesh - this is something I've not experienced personally.

All the best.

Christian

 

[Roger H]

amandag38,

Point 4. I've previously batched up lime mortar with bagged hydrated lime, mixed with water for a few weeks and then worked into the sand. Works fine in small batches but a swine to mix by hand in quantity. My new method is to dry-mix the hydrated lime and sand in a cement mixer, then when its mixed, add water, then decant into 1 tonne builders bags lined with plastic. Appears to stay reasonably airtight and after leaving for a week or so, I'd imagine it's as good as the other method. Still quite hard work a tonne at a time though. Roger.

 

[Nemesis]

Those lidded tubs bought lime putty comes in can be re-used too to keep your hydrate, aggregate and water mix in once you've taken it out of the mixer.

 

[biffvernon]

blond or blonde
Spelling: use blond if you are writing about a boy or a man, and blonde if writing about a girl or a woman.

Gosh, this has been an educative morning. I note from Wikipedia:

Etymology, spelling, and grammar
The word blonde was first attested in English in 1481 and derives from Old French blont and meant "a colour midway between golden and light chestnut". It largely replaced the native term fair, from Old English fæger. The French (and thus also the English) word blond has two possible origins. Some linguists say it comes from Middle Latin blundus, meaning yellow, from Old Frankish *blund which would relate it to Old English blonden-feax meaning grey-haired, from blondan/blandan meaning to mix. Also, Old English beblonden meant dyed as ancient Germanic warriors were noted for dyeing their hair. However, other linguists who desire a Latin origin for the word say that Middle Latin blundus was a vulgar pronunciation of Latin flavus, also meaning yellow. Most authorities, especially French, attest the Frankish origin. The word was reintroduced into English in the 17th century from French, and was for some time considered French, hence blonde for females/noun and blond for males/adjective.[1]

Writers of English often will still distinguish between the masculine blond and the feminine blonde[2] and, as such, it is one of the few adjectives in English with separate masculine and feminine forms. However, many writers use only one of the spellings without regard to gender, and without a clear majority usage one way or another. The word is also often used as a noun to refer to a woman with blond hair, but some speakers see this usage as sexist[2] and reject it. (Another hair color word of French origin, brunet(te), also functions in the same way in orthodox English.)

The word is also occasionally used, with either spelling, to refer to objects that have a color reminiscent of fair hair. Examples include pale wood and lager beer.

 

[Nemesis]

Now Mr Vernon - on occasions I have known you to make some small errors in grammar, spelling and punctuation, so taking the moral high ground is possibly not what is required here.

I'm very aware of blond v blonde and the etymological discussions which abound, but there are others forums (some say fora...) where such things are discussed.

 

[Penners]

back in the good ol' days, there was a regular poster known as P. Edant, who would have been rude enough to point out the correct usage of capital letters and apostrophes and the spelling of 'blond'

I am touched that I should be regarded as part and parcel of "the good ol' days", sir, but I steadfastly deny any rudeness. I simply did my modest best to uphold the standards of English espoused by our greaters writers and by Mr. Malcolm "Pocket Billiards*" Gibson, my English teacher.

I fought a valiant, but losing battle. The lathes greatly outnumber the laths. Singular collective nouns attract plural verb forms. Capital letters and full stops fade from the race memory.

Hence my withdrawal into early, depressed retirement, and my futile gesture of passing my baton to Penners, of all people.

P. Edant


* Don't ask.

 

[Nemesis]

I hope it was his own pocket and not yours.

 

[Penners]

Oh yes - nothing pervy. Just a constant need to fumble and adjust. But strictly within his own trouserial boundaries.