Can a superser run on big red gas bottles?

[robgil]

Just out of interest, gas for my heaters is costing a small fortune.

 

[Penners]

Do the heaters already run on bottled gas? If so, I don't think the size of bottle makes any difference. Best ask you gas supplier next time you want to a new bottle.

 

[skier-hughes]

I'm assuming you currently use blue butane gas and want to use red propane gas.
Besides a different regulator which you'd need to buy.....
Butane is less toxic and so can legally be used and stored indoors. Litre for litre, it contains around 12% more energy than Propane and so you can squeeze more running time into the same sized bottle. (Butane is heavier than Propane though, so weight for weight it's a pretty close call.)
Butane also burns cleaner than Propane.
In order to be usable, the liquid in the bottle must be able to boil into a gas. In the case of Butane, this will happen at any temperature above -2C, whereas with Propane, this figure is much lower, at -42C. In the real world, it's not so clear cut. Whenever some of the liquid boils into gas, the remaining liquid cools. It is therefore possible for the temperature of the liquid to drop to several degrees below ambient. This can easily prevent a Butane canister from producing a useful gas supply, even when the outside temperature is several degrees above 0C

 

[MatthewC]

In order to be usable, the liquid in the bottle must be able to boil into a gas. In the case of Butane, this will happen at any temperature above -2C, whereas with Propane, this figure is much lower, at -42C. In the real world, it's not so clear cut. Whenever some of the liquid boils into gas, the remaining liquid cools. It is therefore possible for the temperature of the liquid to drop to several degrees below ambient. This can easily prevent a Butane canister from producing a useful gas supply, even when the outside temperature is several degrees above 0C

When I hired a propane space heater for a church last November, they said that if it was on for any length of time then I would need two large bottles (both connected) as one bottle would empty so fast that it would freeze and become unuseable, as skier-hughes says. But that was inside a building at about 10 deg C!

 

[skier-hughes]

The faster the bottle empties the colder it gets, but a superser won't be able to pull that much gas out, so you shouldn't have that problem. "he hopes"

 

[Feltwell]

I've got an old battered cabinet heater that I use in the garage to take the edge off this freezing weather and at least give somewhere to warm your hands up occasionally. I've noticed that mine doesn't like running smoothly on very cold days unless the gas bottle is nearly full. Compared to Butane, Propane definitely copes better at low temperatures when used in caravans. I've no idea if a cabinet heater can be made to run on Propane, on caravans I think it's just a change of regulator that is required.

Mind you, my LPG car (propane) usually switches onto gas within 4 miles or so of home. A record the other day, 22 miles of motorway driving before the engine was warm enough to switch over to the gas! It needs heat from the engine to vapourise the gas, so LPG cars always start on petrol.

Do you not find that running cabinet heaters indoors fills your house up with water vapour Rob? I've noticed the garage rooflights drip with condensation if the heater is running for a long time. Also, there's no way I'd want run one without a cylinder in it - mine is really unstable without it's cylinder.

I've wondered about the emissions from those things. There is a bit of a smell to them, and they obviously have no flue - what happens to the noxious gas products? I presume they rely on them being at a low enough level not to be a problem.

I know what you mean about the cost though - I went to get a 13kg butane cylinder refill from the gas wholesaler the other day, it was £22 - I'm sure it was only about £14 last time I bought one.

 

[Lime]

Most of the pertinent points have already been made.
Perhaps the most important being the instability of the Superser if used without the weight of a cylinder.

I lived with superser heating for 6 months while central heating was installed.
They pour out moisture into the air because the products of combustion are vented into the house.
Everywhere becomes damp very quickly.
Not good if you have asthma or other lung problems.
I'd never use a superser as a main form of heating again because of the moisture and smell.

I would not use these heaters on a propane supply.
The cylinder would need to be kept outside and therefore require a long pipe to supply the heater.
My anxiety was heightened many years ago when a pipe connection split open while using a propane blow lamp.
The gas caught fire with a frightening explosion and a raw 6-10 foot long, very hot flame shot out the end of the pipe.
It thrashed around in all directions for what seemed a long time before the gas pressure subsided in the long pipe (cut off by the auto-cutoff on the cylinder).
Fortunately this all happened outside, I was high on scaffolding at the time and the pipe fell to the ground.
It gave me a tangible understanding of the Space Shuttle crew's experience who died in a fire on the launch pad when a high pressure oxygen pipe broke free cutting them to pieces.

 

[Feltwell]

One is freezing one's wotsits off working out in the garage today - because it's too cold for the butane powered cabinet heater to work properly :evil: What I need is a heater to keep the heater warm!

 

[Flyfisher]

What I need is a heater to keep the heater warm!

A small improvised camp fire should do the trick. :wink:

Actually, our garage/workshop has a working fireplace and chimney and I have used it once when repairing the tractor in the depths of winter. But the two-inch gap under the garage doors allowed such a draft that my feet froze faster with the fire alight than without it. I've often wondered why the fire and chimney was built originally though as it's hard to imagine that the outbuildings were ever anything more than just, er, outbuildings.

 

[worms]

One is freezing one's wotsits off working out in the garage today - because it's too cold for the butane powered cabinet heater to work properly :evil: What I need is a heater to keep the heater warm!

Balmy 11 degrees C here in the "frozen" north!

 

[worms]

I've often wondered why the fire and chimney was built originally though as it's hard to imagine that the outbuildings were ever anything more than just, er, outbuildings.

Wash-house? Forge? Branding irons? Refuge from the missus?

 

[Flyfisher]

I've often wondered why the fire and chimney was built originally though as it's hard to imagine that the outbuildings were ever anything more than just, er, outbuildings.

Wash-house? Forge? Branding irons? Refuge from the missus?

I doubt it would have been a wash-house fire as it's not large enough and too recessed to put anything above it for heating purposes. I think it's too low for a forge. It could be used for heating branding irons, though so could almost any open fire.

So I think there can be little doubt it was a refuge from the missus.

 

[Flyfisher]

It gave me a tangible understanding of the Space Shuttle crew's experience who died in a fire on the launch pad when a high pressure oxygen pipe broke free cutting them to pieces.

**Geek Alert**
Are you sure that was a Space Shuttle crew and not Apollo 1?
And I think the fatalities were due to a fire caused by the 100% oxygen cabin atmosphere rather than a flailing hose.

I'll get my anorak

 

[Penners]

I've got the anorak at the moment, FF, because I agree with you. I'll give it back when I've finished with it (which may be never).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_1