can a flagstone floor have a cellar beneath?

[rainy]

Sorry if this is a naive question - Im new on here
6 years ago we uncovered the original flag floor in our house which we think is about 250 years old. Its been knocked about a bit including [I reckon] the stair now go up the opposite way.
The floor, all along the wall beneath the stairs, is concrete and slightly higher than the flags. Also at the bottom of the [now] stairs are cuts in the stone wall that I think may have supported a door which would have lead under the stairs?
Is it possible that the concrete was used to fill in the cellar steps? or am I just being overly imaginitive? cant think why else the concrete would be there.

 

[tom.harrigan]

Hi

The concrete slab closing off my cellar is beneath the original stairs too. There's a good chance you have a cellar entrance, and only one way you are going to find out! Have you got a sledge hammer?

T

 

[rainy]

I could see my husband wincing as I wrote that first post - he knew the sledgehammer might be brought up!
He thought our days of smashing up the house were over :lol:
Did you smash yours up? if so were there any other indicators, beside the concrete, that there might be something down there ?

Weve always thought that with our floor there couldnt be anything under the house so we used the old stone roof tile that we dug up from the garden and set them over the concrete.

We need the geophys guys from time team to come over to tell us whats down there.

 

[Tom]

Rainy, where abouts are you? I have access to a SearchCam, normally used in rescue situations, but you could use it to look into a small hole and see what's beneath. It has a probe with a camera and lights on the end and transmits to a colour screen. Your other 'alf might not mind a little hole being dug to do an exploration

Jaqy

 

[Penners]

And even if you don't find a cellar, if you're in a terraced or semi-detached house you could have fun with a small hole in the party wall.

 

[rainy]

Im in Bury in Lancashire - a long way from Lincolnshire - which is a shame - that camera sounds great!

We are an end of terrace [kind of] but my neighbours are an elderly couple so I dont think the camera would get steamed up through a hole in the part wall :lol:

We are attatched to 4 small terraced cottages but ours is bigger both in width and depth to theirs. It was once two cottages and was added to the other houses. Years ago our stonemason said he thought our house was used by animals [some would say it still is !!] because of the marks on the floor - I never did ask for an expanation.

I have tried to find details of its history but have drawn a blank. We live next door to a farm so it could have been a farm building but there is also a big cotton industry history here so it might have been built as housing for workers - I guess I'll never know.

 

[Tom]

Hi Rainy

Don't give up yet. My husband travels a lot with work and it's possible he could call in with the camera, if you think it would help. Let me know.

Jaqy

 

[stickybeak]

.

 

[Penners]

Sounds expensive.

 

[Nemesis]

Me, I'd have had the sledgehammer out long before now! Of course, the celler, if it exists, may have been filled with rubble before being sealed - that has been known to happen.

I'm not at all sure how looking up how many lived in a house is a clue to if there may be a cellar or not.

They possibly didn't live in the cellar. It may have been simply storage space.

And not all planning apps are accompanied by full surveys.

 

[rainy]

Jaqy
thats a marvellous offer and if your husband is ever travelling this way he will be warmly welcome in our humble abode.

I did look on the 1901 census and 11 people lived here!! mainly cotton mill workers - where they all slept is anyones guess but I agree it probably wasnt the cellar

If we had given the slightest thought to a cellar a few years ago we probably wouldve just dug it up - but were a bit more apprehensive now the house it a bit more tidy :lol:

Would there be any outside evidence of a cellar? we havent seen anything. We did dig out 3ft of earth from against the front wall but that only took us down to just below the inside floor level and there was no grill or anything.

Whoever lived here before us botched the place up [sorry - modernised it] in the early 70s and my guess is planning applications might not have been his strong point.
We are not a listed property.

 

[Nemesis]

And even if you don't find a cellar, if you're in a terraced or semi-detached house you could have fun with a small hole in the party wall.

Do please explain Penners - my mind is working overtime...

 

[Tom]

Rainy, I've asked Steve.....and you're in luck!!! He has a camera to collect from Widnes and would be more than happy to call in with it for you You'd need to core drill a hole about 2" to 3" in diameter, through to any void that you find. Please email me at easy2cancel@hotmail.com

Jaqy

 

[Nemesis]

Actually, many a worker in the really bad ol' days did live in cellars - along with families - overcrowding was dreadful, but without evidence it's hard to say that numbers of people resident equals having a cellar.

It may just have been storage space for foodstuffs etc. I do know people with small storage cellars where there is no natural light at all.

11) Angus Reach, The Morning Chronicle (1849)

The lowest, most filthy, most unhealthy, and most wicked locality in Manchester is called Angel Meadow. It lies off the Oldham Road, is full of cellars and is inhabited by prostitutes, their bullies, thieves, cadgers, vagrants, tramps, and, in the very worst sites of filth, and darkness. My guide was sub-inspector of police - an excellent conductor in one respect, but disadvantageous in another, seeing that his presence spread panic wherever he went. Many of the people that night visited had, doubtless, ample cause to be nervous touching the presence of one of the guardians of the law.
There were no Irish in the houses we visited. They live in more wretched places still - the cellars. We descended to one. The place was dark, except for the glare of the small fire. You could not stand without stooping in the room, which might be about twelve feet by eight. There were at least a dozen men, women, and children, on stools or squatted on the stone floor round the fire, and the heat and smells were oppressive. This not being a lodging cellar, the police had no control over the number of its inmates, who slept huddled on the stones, or on masses of rags, shavings and straw, which were littered about.

Half the people who lived in the den, had not yet returned, being still out hawking lucifers, matches and besoms. They were all Irish from Westport, in the county of Mayo. After leaving, a woman followed me into the street to know if I had come from Westport and was greatly disappointed at being answered in the negative.


http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/ITmanchester.htm

It could also be that there was a storage cupboard under the stairs - we have one - which was removed and the wall knocked down when the stairs were moved. The floor may simply have been concreted over.

But - until you investigate you won't know!

Can you post a pic?

 

[stickybeak]

I seem to recall David Dimbleby in one of the later episodes of his recent series climbing into a cellar somewhere to see where a family of 11 or 13 or some horrendous number used to live. And that was three small interconnecting spaces with no natural light or ventilation. I think there was some kind of small fireplace though for cooking.
And that was one of the notable mill towns, if memory serves.