Buying 'antique' furniture - query

[Lindyboo]

I wonder if forum members would share their experience of buying ‘antique’ furnishings. I say ‘antique’ in quotes because I mean the sort of period stuff that costs no more than the low hundreds of pounds and will never startle the experts on the Antiques Roadshow.

I’m looking for small items of furniture (drop-leaf and occasional tables in particular) with which to grace Chez Shack, but have no idea what counts as a fair price or if haggling should be entered into. I mooched round a few shops in Horncastle recently and noticed that in one there was an abundance of what looked like identical drop-leaf tables littered around the store. Might this indicate a whole bunch of repro items, or would one expect to find items so similar (they looked – to my inexperienced eye –Victorian. Dark wood, barley twist legs, leaves shaped into a pointed oval)? What should I look for to determine if wooden furnishings are old or new?

I daresay this is a bigger question than can be fully answered here, but any advice on books or web sites – and of course, personal advice – which might point me in the right direction would be welcome.

Ta

 

[christianb]

Hi Lindyboo,

My own experience of buying antique items suggests that this is a good time to head to the auction rooms (preferably those outside the major cities and towns). Admittedly, one does noeed to visit one or two as some tend to command higher prices than others, but a few dealers I've spoken to have said that there are real bargains to be had right now.

Put it this way, I recently picked up three "medium sized" oak gothic arch windows (early Victorian) in excellent condition. The cost? £65.

Christian

 

[Lindyboo]

Thanks Christian

I'll have a look to see what auctions are about - sounds a bit scary though. I might cough and end up with a box of anti-mocassars and assorted false teeth.

Am I correct in assuming that anything bought at auction must be removed on the day by the purchaser? If I bought anything that wouldn't fit in the car I'd be stuck.

 

[chuckey]

Round here there is a sort of house clearance auction on the first saturday of the month. The items you want would be got for about £10 each, albeit a little battered. Saw a bren gun go for £200, WOW!
Frank

 

[christianb]

I might cough and end up with a box of anti-mocassars and assorted false teeth.

And then you could advertise said dentures in "Antique Orthodontistry Bi-monthly" and make a small fortune flogging them to a weird collector of such macabre artefacts in Idaho.

Seriously, though, the ones I've been to have generally allowed a couple of days for buyers to collect paid for items. Others may be different, though.

Could be well worth looking at online sale catalogues for auction houses near you.

Christian

 

[Lindyboo]

Saw a bren gun go for £200, WOW!
Frank

Could've done with that last year to get rid of the mice ...

 

[Nemesis]

I have a house full of battered stuff - much of it bought long ago, and some of it if it was in much better nick might be worth a bob or several more than it is, but the odd spilt wine and scratch don't matter too much, it's the overall effect that counts, and I leave copies of 'Country Living' around in case folks don't realise it's shabby chic, dahlings. Actually as mostly it's hidden under a layer of dust they don't but hey.

'Country' furniture is usually good value and made of decent wood. Get a written item description if it's offered as 'antique'.


Buy what you like, worry not about fashion and ask for a written statement if you are unsure. Drop leaf tables aren't terribly fashionable at the moment (my mother, unknown to me, sold hers for not a lot a few years ago... aggghhh...) but they are useful and can look really good in the right place. Look underneath - old and solid will be solid and possibly a bit rough and dirty underneath. If it's chipboard, with a veneer, well offer a few quid but it could still be useful table, it could be painted.

Don't worry if it all doesn't match - accessorise like mad and no-one will notice. A bluddy good clean and polish helps at times. Liberon and Colron make useful products.

Yes haggle - ask what the best price they will do on a piece is... it's expected. Look at it, then say 'OK, what's the best you will do if it's cash'?

Don't look too keen and walk away if the price isn't right. (Offer cash and the price can drop even further.) Offer a price - be cheeky. Deep breath and a stiff gin will give you courage.

Auctions - go and see. Not fine antique auctions, but general house clearance type auctions are a good start. You usually have a day or two to remove furniture, and they may help arrange delivery. Call in at the office and have a chat, ask about anything you aren't sure about, if in real doubt the auction staff will place the bids for you up to what you specify. Just don't get carried away. It's very easy to do.

We bought, thirty plus years ago, our double drop end Chesterfield for eleven quid at auction and got it home in the back of a Renault Four... with much of it sticking out the back and the hatch open. I once rolled a chair on its castors home, but I was young and foolish. Now I'm not young, but still foolish.

Another auction thing is mixed boxes of glass and stuff and bundles of linen - worth a pop at.

Then you need to move house as you haven't enough room, but that's another story.

 

[Flyfisher]

Auctions are the thing. There's bound to be a regular auction house near you somewhere. Google around for one or two. The great thing about the web is that catalogues are now widely available online so you don't need to go unless there is something you're interested in. Even then you can usually register a vote and they'll enter bids for you (reputable auction houses will not simply enter your highest bid either!).

The other great thing about the web is that auction results are also widely available so you can easily get a feel for the prices being realised. Oak furniture seems to be particularly cheap at the present time and I've seen perfectly respectable solid oak drop-leaf tables for around £25 whereas something similar in stripped pine would be well over £100.

Also, auction houses will generally separate out the better items into a 'fine' sale that are less frequent than the 'run-of-the-mill' sales. Again, check their websites.

An auction can be a mildly entertaining day out as well and it's probably best to attend one or two with no intention of bidding, just to get the feel of things. Oh, and be careful to fully understand the fees; there's almost always VAT on the hammer price but also sometimes a buyers fee, which can be 10% or more, so a £100 winning bid might cost you £129.25.

These will be too far away for you (I guess) but should give you an idea of what to look for:
http://www.twgaze.com/Diss-Auction-Rooms/Current-Catalogues
http://pages.eidosnet.co.uk/~watton.salerooms/Auctions.htm

 

[MdB]

Auctions are the thing.
...
An auction can be a mildly entertaining day out as well and it's probably best to attend one or two with no intention of bidding, just to get the feel of things. Oh, and be careful to fully understand the fees; there's almost always VAT on the hammer price but also sometimes a buyers fee, which can be 10% or more, so a £100 winning bid might cost you £129.25.

Auctions are very much worth looking at. I came to the conclusion it was cheaper to by solid wood furniture than it was to buy firewood (might be pushing it a bit but not by much.) You will have to go to a number though before you get the feel for the way it works and many more before what you want comes up.

 

[Flyfisher]

Funny you should mention firewood, I've thought the same thing when seeing pieces of solid wood furniture knocked down for £5 or less. But I don't think I could bring myself to actually doing it in practice. It can be a mad world though.

 

[Cloudscape]

the sort of period stuff that costs no more than the low hundreds of pounds

Some of us aim for the low tens of pounds and get some very nice stuff. :wink: If you're looking to spend in the 'low hundreds', you'll find a wide choice out there, from overblown and (to some) unsatisfying repro, to pieces with real character.

If you're buying antiques, is this just to furnish a home, or for investment as well? If it's the former, the best advice is to buy things you really like, that give you pleasure and mix functionality with aesthetics. Just so long as you feel you are getting something like value for money. If it's the latter, I'd tread a little more carefully and don't believe everything written on a label, or in a blurb on eBay.

Scouting around eBay, junk shops, antiques shops and boot fairs, you'll find all kinds of things that are old, interesting, pleasantly shabby or grand. For every piece that costs £400+, you'll find a lot of cheaper pieces. Sometimes the pieces you love best are the ones you got for a song.

I guess it depends what kind of home you're wanting to furnish and what will suit it. In my case, the more splits, woodworm, damage and repairs, the better things seem to fit in.

 

[biffvernon]

in Horncastle recently and noticed that in one there was an abundance of what looked like identical drop-leaf tables littered around the store. Might this indicate a whole bunch of repro items, or would one expect to find items so similar (they looked – to my inexperienced eye –Victorian. Dark wood, barley twist legs, leaves shaped into a pointed oval)? What should I look for to determine if wooden furnishings are old or new?

Many of those were made of oak - you can often spot the 'figure' in the grain of oak. Have you tried the Maltings in Aswell Street, Louth?

 

[Penners]

As others have suggested, you can pick up some good-value items at auctions. However, if you're inexperienced at such things, do be careful not to get carried away with the excitement of everything. It's easy to end up thinking to yourself "just another fiver..." and to spend much more than you intended. Make a note of your maximum bid for any item, and don't exceed it.

If you're buying from dealers, try to avoid the "honeypot" towns and villages, with lots of antique shops that attract high volumes of tourists. Prices are always higher in such places. And when it comes to price, decide what you are prepared to pay for an item, and then offer this to the dealer. There can only be two outcomes - they'll refuse (so you walk away) or they'll accept.

Remember - there are always other dealers...

 

[Lindyboo]

Thanks all, for your replies.

Cloudscape - I'm buying to furnish the home and want pieces that are in sympathy with the house (mid-Victorian cottage), but I don't want to go overboard and have everything of the same period. I agree that it's important to like a piece and that will be the main consideration. I'm a tad restricted on size however, since the principal rooms here are long and narrow, with more than one doorway into each. The furniture we brought from our modern house, which I bought deliberately so that it would look okay when we moved to a cottage, doesn't fit (sigh), so I need to get pieces governed strictly by size. My need for drop-leaf tables is so that we can fold them down after use in order to regain valuable floor space.

Biff - no, haven't yet explored Louth, but noted yesterday that there's an auction at John Taylors in Louth on 24th June, so I'm intending to get along that day and see what's doing. A cab driver mentioned recently that Louth is a good place for antiques. Re the tables in Horcastle - have you seen them? (Maybe you were the chap that I was inadvertently following around the antique shops last week. I wasn't stalking you, honest!).

Penners - good point about avoiding the honeypots. Would you put Louth and Horncastle in that category?

 

[Penners]

Would you put Louth and Horncastle in that category?

'Fraid I'm not much good on Lincolnshire. I'm sure a native such as Biff can advise you.

 

[Mark]

ebay can turn up some real bargains - IF you have access to a van for collection.

We got a fairly nice oak dresser for £20 not so long ago. (+£50 van hire +£50 diesel + time)

 

[Craig]

Delivery for stuff bought off fleabay should be c. £80 to £100 so maybe a saving of time over DIY?

I agree though - brown furniture is very out of fashion, it seems. Its also helpful if you can offer up a bit of TLC - cleaning, polishing, mending hinges, etc. can make a huge difference from how things look in the auction room.

Cheapest repro we got was a dining table and 6 chairs, all brand new, for £1.

 

[Nigel Watts]

Try http://www.the-saleroom.com and select "catalogues" then "lot find". You may have to register as a user but this feature is free (you have to pay to see past sales results)

The site contains a compliation of the catalogues of many provincial auction houses, including some quite good ones such as Dreweatts, Lyon & Turnbull and Wooley Wallis and you can search on key words. I have found a number of things I was looking for using this facility and have subsequently been successful bidding for them.

Christie's, Sotheby's and Bonhams are not covered but they all have their own search facilities on their websites. Sotheby's has become rather grand since they closed their Olympia saleroom, but Christies South Kensington may still be worth a look. This is where they sell their less expensive stuff (less expensive relative to their King Street rooms that is!). Bonhams has a network of salerooms across the country. Dreweatts takes in items from many local branches and sells them in two main hubs - at Donnington near Newbury and in Nottingham.

There are plenty of ways of finding out how much things have sold for in previous auctions and this can give you a good idea of where to set your limit. Many salerooms have websites with pictures and prices from past auctions. Estimates set by the saleroom are usually a good guide but they can also be way off the the mark - in either direction.

I occasionally buy items unseen by placing absentee bids, but this is risky. It is always better to see the thing you are bidding for, even if you cant make the sale in person. Salerooms always have preview days.

Items often remain usold at the end of the auction, usually because the reserve has not been met. It is possible to negotiate a purchase of such items after the event by contacting the auctioneer. I have done this on a couple of occasions, Both items had a family history interest for me so I didnt mind paying more than the higest auction bid.

You will doubtless make some mistakes, but dont be put off. Many years ago a bought a "regency" rosewood chiffonier which I had seen advertising the sale. I took the day off work to attend the auction. When I saw the piece I knew it was wrong (It was clearly of a later date and rather crudely altered to make it look earlier, and in those days more valuable), but I was already in the mindset that I had to buy it. When the hammer came down on my final bid there was a loud collective intake of breath from all the dealers at the back of the room. The moral? Do your research, trust your instinct and be prepared to walk away.

Have fun!

 

[Penners]

ebay can turn up some real bargains

My Sunday newspaper had some warnings in it about the steady growth of fraudulent traders on ebay, so do be careful. The most useful piece of advice for avoiding problems appeared to be always to use ebay's Paypal payment method, which incorporates some safeguards for purchasers.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

If you like it, it fits, does what you want, is within budget, is the style you are after, buy it without worrying.

Most Georgian, Victorian tables, chairs and chest of drawers--- the brown stuff--- is very affordable at the moment.

The Homes and Antiques magazine now has a website, and includes a buying and selling section which you might find interesting.

Most reputable dealers will spend time talking to you about what they are selling, and should tell you whether there is a repair or replacement on the item,and they should be willing to take back a piece which really does not come up to your requirements when you get it home. Some will offer to bring the pieces over for you to try if you are really unsure.

Get to know one or two dealers and give them a wish list, they will often let you know what they have got coming in.

If you are in any doubt, check the BADA website .