Building regs

[Sonyaclegg]

I put in a listed building app to plaster the back of an ingelnook fireplace and wrap kitchen cabinets round the base. Planning officer came to inspect and said it would be passed. All well and good. I today received a letter advising I have to make a building regs app for the work. I don't understand why, when all we will be doing is battening the inside of the fireplace, applying plaster board and plastering? Advice appreciated

 

[Penners]

This work is obviously being carried out in a kitchen. Could it be that you will also be modifying the electrics and/or plumbing? That's the only thing I can think of that might trigger a building regs application.

 

[middi]

Funny things building regs on old buildings. If you restore the inglenook exactly the same as it was built 3/400 years ago there is no need to tell anybody anything.
If you tell the the authorities you want to modify, add to the rebuild/repair or remove anything as to existing, you wiil be required to comply with building regs etc..

That is the way the " cookie crumbles". ( maybe sometimes it pays to keeps one's mouth shut )


Middi

 

[Penners]

I find it very difficult to keep my mouth shut when there are cookies about.

 

[middi]

I find it very difficult to keep my mouth shut when there are cookies about.

Help yourself Mr P, :shock: :evil: :twisted: :roll: :wink: :!: :?: :idea: :arrow: :| :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :x

Middi

 

[DJH]

I'm not sure about this as I've been retired a few years but, as I recall, VAT used to be zero rated on alterations to listed buildings. In the past in my dealings with Customs and Excise, as they were then, I often came across this situation with works on listed buildings, especially churches, and following their guide lines ( the onus is always on the registered trader of course) a copy of the listed buildings certificate or building consent was all that was needed for me to zero rate the appropriate alteration work. An example would be if alterations were made to gutters, roof falls, or heights to the decking having to be made for the inclusion of insulation and or ventilation etc and these would attract a zero rating.

Worth looking into if you are carrying out alterations not repairs or maintenance.

Doug

PS If I'm right and you save lots of money, I like cookies as well. Just had some white chocolate and cranberry ones for Christmas.

 

[Keith Bowman]

I'm not sure about this as I've been retired a few years but, as I recall, VAT used to be zero rated on alterations to listed buildings. In the past in my dealings with Customs and Excise, as they were then, I often came across this situation with works on listed buildings, especially churches, and following their guide lines ( the onus is always on the registered trader of course) a copy of the listed buildings certificate or building consent was all that was needed for me to zero rate the appropriate alteration work. An example would be if alterations were made to gutters, roof falls, or heights to the decking having to be made for the inclusion of insulation and or ventilation etc and these would attract a zero rating.

Worth looking into if you are carrying out alterations not repairs or maintenance.

Doug

PS If I'm right and you save lots of money, I like cookies as well. Just had some white chocolate and cranberry ones for Christmas.

Yet another thing that has changed, and not for the better (see stripping paint from cast iron with Nitromors). They did away with the anomaly that alterations got a discount while repairs were fully VAtable by doing away with the concession completely. :x

 

[Penners]

They did away with the anomaly that alterations got a discount while repairs were fully VAtable by doing away with the concession completely.

Oh really? So no work whatsoever on listed buildings can now be zero-rated for VAT? I hadn't heard about that.

 

[Sonyaclegg]

Thank you all for the advice.

We are nil vat as we are restoring a building that has been empty for 80 years. We can claim all the vat back at the end which is very useful. Contractors charge 5% which we then claim back. Items we purchase attract the full vat rate which we claim back. If anyone is working on a property that has been empty for more than 2 years, the same applies. It's a little known vat rule and a very helpful one too.

 

[Sonyaclegg]

That is the way the " cookie crumbles". ( maybe sometimes it pays to keeps one's mouth shut )


Middi[/quote]
That's my hubs approach but not mine! I think you would get on well with him

 

[DJH]

Hmm. No cookies for me then Sonya.....

 

[Flyfisher]

They did away with the anomaly that alterations got a discount while repairs were fully VAtable by doing away with the concession completely.

Oh really? So no work whatsoever on listed buildings can now be zero-rated for VAT? I hadn't heard about that.

Unfortunately, yes. It was announced in last year's budget. There were transition arrangements that allowed existing works to be completed but there was also a cut-off date of 1st October 2012 for any works in progress.

EDIT . . . I just had a quick search for the relevant HMRC info and came across this, which I wasn't aware of, so thanks to Doug for raising the issue again as I can probably benefit from this.

http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/blog-post/listed-buildings-hmrc-extend-transitional-arrangements

 

[Sonyaclegg]

You are in a cookie class all of your own. Extra special for you

 

[Penners]

They did away with the anomaly that alterations got a discount while repairs were fully VAtable by doing away with the concession completely.

Oh really? So no work whatsoever on listed buildings can now be zero-rated for VAT? I hadn't heard about that.

Unfortunately, yes. It was announced in last year's budget.

I completely missed that, so thanks to Keith and you for the update. It was always an anomalous situation that you could avoid VAT by changing your listed building, but not by repairing it. However, this has to be very bad news for listed building stock as a whole. Given the paucity of new-builds just at the moment, I should have thought that the Government would clearly see the wisdom of offering an incentive to bring outdated listed buildings up to 21st century living standards, under the control of LBC.

Sorry - did I just concatenate the words "Government" and "wisdom"? :roll:

 

[Moo]

Interesting that you're nil rated, Sonja. I thought that that particular concession had been done away with. How did you find about it?
We were tipped off by a lovely young VAT officer that, because our house hadn't been occupied for nearly a century (although it had been in use as offices ) we qualified as a 'DIY Conversion' and, like you, we could claim back all the VAT when we were satisfied that the work had been finished. So we assiduously kept every bill and till receipt, down to the last packet of nails, and when we got the money (very promptly, to our surprise), it was enough to cover the cost of an expensive bit of unexpected re-roofing.
You may well find that you'll be able to afford quite sumptuous curtains at your numerous windows.

 

[DJH]

I might be wrong but I thought that for some buildings, places of worship perhaps, a VAT rate of 5% is applied..... Anyone have pews fitted??

Doug

 

[Roger H]

There was a massive campaign and petitions against scrapping the zero rate for works requiring LBC by EH, IHBC and FMB last year.
http://ihbconline.co.uk/newsachive/?p=4155

All sadly to no avail.

Sonya is right that zero rating remains for bringing empty properties back into use and also for creating new residential properties by way of Conversion to residential - See HMRC VAT Notice 708. (5% for labour)

New Buildings benefit from Zero Rating too, yet repair is full VAT - a somewhat perverse and unsustainable situation.

 

[Flyfisher]

There was a massive campaign and petitions against scrapping the zero rate for works requiring LBC by EH, IHBC and FMB last year.
http://ihbconline.co.uk/newsachive/?p=4155

All sadly to no avail.

Yes and no. Transitional arrangements for 0% VAT on listed building alterations were extended to 2015 as a direct result of the campaigning and consultations but you're right that the basic decision wasn't overturned. Full details here, section 2.6:
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary_ConsultationDocuments&propertyType=document&columns=1&id=HMCE_PROD1_032138


There is a lot of VAT guideline information on the HMRC website, including the extended transitional arrangements for alterations to listed buildings. I assume they are the definitive source for such things.

Regarding Doug's point, I''ve heard of advantageous VAT treatment when converting unused and/or commercial property into domestic dwellings and perhaps places of worship would fall into that category?

But, whatever the rules are, I'd recommend finding out about them as soon as possible and preferably before works start because if they are anything like the rules for alterations to listed buildings then the VAT cannot actually be reclaimed; you have to ensure that it isn't paid in the first place. A technicality perhaps, but a very important one!

I think the reason is because, technically, VAT is still payable but it is zero-rated. Therefore, your contractors must invoice you and include VAT at 0% and there is no actual cost. But if they invoice you with the usual 20% VAT, there is no mechanism to subsequently claim it back.

So it's very important that everyone concerned understands the relevant rules before the work starts and that the contractor is happy to invoice with 0% VAT.

In my experience, they will merely require a copy of the listed building consent for their files so that they can justify the 0% VAT should they be audited by their tax office.

 

[LadyArowana]

I think the reason is because, technically, VAT is still payable but it is zero-rated. Therefore, your contractors must invoice you and include VAT at 0% and there is no actual cost. But if they invoice you with the usual 20% VAT, there is no mechanism to subsequently claim it .

Some things are "exempt" and some things are "zero rated", for people who like clipboards and anoraks it is indeed a fascinating distinction. :lol:

 

[Roger H]

For conversions to residential, (& conversion of a church would fit), as I recall, you pay full VAT on materials then claim it back from HMRC at the end of the job. You need to get the contractor to bill his labour at 5% though, otherwise, you've lost that (and the 5% is payable, not reclaimable).

Best plan, get your wreck of a house converted briefly to a shop, then back to a house again .