Broken old drain

[JoceAndChris]

No real question in this post, I just want to grumble. An old rainwater drain that I'm certain was originally installed nicely revealed itself yesterday to be a prize bodge. Grr.
Pics to follow.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Here it is: a nasty lot of concrete poured into the old drain area and the draining of our thrice-yearly rain shower taking place a mere foot from the house.

I don't believe in rising damp but falling damp is a serious possibility. The moisture could fall into the underground kitchen wall (1 metre thick!)- where the Keep Calm and Carry On poster is:

I haven't noticed any problems in that wall which is encased in gypsum plaster. The floor on the right is tanked. But the whole thing may be contributing to the musty smells in the kitchen.

Or do you think maybe it isn't? Perhaps that rose and little bay tree is drinking it all up.

Anyway the nice drain man is coming next week to lay a drain down the garden to the ha-ha, pretty much where Lucia & Co are congregating in this pic:

£400 for that - what do you think? He'd be replacing gulley and pipe, with a section of perforated pipe along the right-hand rose bed (where Mme Croquembouche is standing) so at least that's one less for me to water.

 

[skier-hughes]

Quite good I should think. I paid £600 for less length, but we had to get through 8" concrete, so took 4 men one whole day.

 

[Pford75]

I assume you're having plastic pipes installed? If so, the materials are not that significant. Although they should be levelling with sand/ballast and there will be some spoil to carry away.

I would say that £100-£150 / day seems to be the labour rate around here. So, depending on how many come to do the job, it would seem a reasonable price.

 

[Lime]

I dislike most things made in plastic.
I dislike most things new, mainly because they are so ephemeral and flimsy.

However plastic drainage correctly installed is perhaps the only home improvement that cannot be beat.
I am certain that the old earthenware drain and pipework were leaking somewhere/everywhere.

Just make sure they keep the downpipe ( ! ) and install a suitable gulley that will catch the rainwater in full flow.
Often with that type of shoe (the bend where the water comes out of the downpipe) it is a good idea to have a lead splash guard in front of the opening to catch splash.

 

[Pford75]

I agree with Lime

I would also add that you ought to ensure that they lay the longest possible run of drain as a single piece (without joins). If you need a join, ask them to show you where it is as they are the areas which normally cause problems (if you are going to have any problems). This will make it easier to deal with in future.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks very much for all the useful tips and comments - yes- a plastic pipe - yes - 2 men, one day, digging or even chainsawing through tree roots. I agree plastic seems like a real step forward in matters of drainage.

A lead splash guard sounds nice, he was talking about building up the area in front of the gulley with bricks. I'll be around to make sure I like what they're doing, and yes, getting them to point out any joins is a good idea.

It will all end into an open drain into the field but I don't think that's going to be a problem as it's only rainwater.

I used this company to replace our toilet drain 3 years ago, which involved lifting and relaying large sections of the herringbone brick path, and to rod out the other drains yesterday so I'm fairly confident I'll be pleased with their work.

 

[Flyfisher]

I agree about plastic drainage; far superior to the alternatives.

I also agree about the possibility of splashes from the downpipe shoe and wouldn't underestimate the amount of water this could distribute around the base of the wall if not correctly contained. There's no need for a shoe at all and the downpipe could be extended directly into the new drain if desired. This has the advantage of sealing the drain from leaves, earth and general garden detritus, making the whole thing more-or-less maintenance-free.

I'd guess they'll be using 6m pipes, which will give a good idea of where the joints are. However, given the fall of the garden away from the house, I wouldn't be losing any sleep over any leaks because the water is never going to find its way back to the house. In fact, because of the topography, a single 6m length of pipe into a decent soakaway under the lawn would probably be just as effective as taking the water all the way into the field and might be a bit cheaper, although £400 seems a pretty good price to me - and certainly a very worthwhile job.

 

[skier-hughes]

Take some pictures of the work as it's being done, it'll be eaiser to track the pipe if you've got a picture of a big trench

 

[worms]

There's no need for a shoe at all and the downpipe could be extended directly into the new drain if desired. This has the advantage of sealing the drain from leaves, earth and general garden detritus, making the whole thing more-or-less maintenance-free...

...But gives you no way of catching any debris that does come down the pipe and makes it more difficult to attend to the downpipes as a separate job from the drain (which you (or a future buyer) will curse in years to come).

 

[JoceAndChris]

Gosh, it's all a bit more complex than I thought! Lots to mull over there, and I'll speak to the company about the shoe thingy. Thanks for all your comments and raising awareness on various points I had not considered. Photographs are an excellent idea - as much as for the next occupants as myself. ( hoping that's far far off!)

FF - it is good that the house drops away from the point of view of drainage - less good at the back though! I take your point that it isn't really necessary to channel to the hedge but I'm hoping the sticking out pipe situated at the hedge can feed a barrel for water for the sheep.

 

[88v8]

I agree about plastic drainage; far superior to the alternatives.

I also agree about the possibility of splashes from the downpipe shoe and wouldn't underestimate the amount of water this could distribute around the base of the wall if not correctly contained. There's no need for a shoe at all and the downpipe could be extended directly into the new drain if desired. This has the advantage of sealing the drain from leaves, earth and general garden detritus, making the whole thing more-or-less maintenance-free.

We have a 'sealed' drain at the back of the house, the lid is plastic, the lid is held down by screws - probably zinc plated, ie cheap - the screws have rusted so the lid is immovable unless I destroy it.
Nowt wrong wi' an open gully in old engineering brick. Just make it big enough to hold the water while it drains away.

Ivor

 

[Zebra]

I share your grumble! When I dug up my back yard to remove the concrete and lower the external ground levels, I found that the yard drained into a gully which went nowhere, and was simply depositing the rainwater under the concrete slab of the house. Grrrrrrrrrrr.

 

[Flyfisher]

There's no need for a shoe at all and the downpipe could be extended directly into the new drain if desired. This has the advantage of sealing the drain from leaves, earth and general garden detritus, making the whole thing more-or-less maintenance-free...

...But gives you no way of catching any debris that does come down the pipe and makes it more difficult to attend to the downpipes as a separate job from the drain (which you (or a future buyer) will curse in years to come).

Surely the downpipe should be fitted with a coarse debris filter in the gutter? Anything small enough to get through will be flushed through the drain and anything large enough to be trapped (mostly leaves) will be cleared out during the annual gutter maintenance.

Also, it's still possible separate the downpipe from the drain, though admittedly it's a bit more of a job, but then it should hardly ever be necessary. Swings and roundabouts I suppose.

 

[Penners]

I heartily agree with FF's suggestion that it would be advisable to have the downpipe discharge inside the gully, rather than trying to create a makeshift splash guard around it. The letter would be very difficult to make absolutely effective, and would probably look rather unattractive.

Much better to extend the downpipe into a modern gully, thereby ensuring that all of the substantial amount of water that can come down in heavy rain is completely contained. That close to the house/undercroft, you really need to prevent any and all leakage.

As for the problem of debris collecting in a gulley, this needn't be serious provided you use a trapped, roddable gully. Have a look at the illustration beside the heading "Roddable Gullies" here: http://www.draindomain.com/drainage%20gullies.html. All you'll have to do is occasionally (perhaps once a year) get your Marigolds on and scoop out any leaves, etc.

I have no doubt that the current lash-up has been contributing to your damp problems, although I wouldn't suggest that its elimination will completely solve these problems. But it's bound to help. Then you can Keep Calm And Carry On.

By the way, I reckon £400 is a bargain! All you have to do is persuade Mme to stay exactly where she is, so the men know where to run the new pipe.