Brickwork-how bad is too bad?!

[Cassie]

So, hacking off cement render in the porch, I was expecting bad brickwork underneath. In some places, it looks ok. Others, not so much. How bad does in have to be before I need an expert in?! It’s clearly been very heavily dubbed with cement and in most places the cement is coming off without too much mortar/brick so I think I lot of the damage must have been done pre-cement, and it’s just made it all worse! Thanks for your help

 

[Feltwell]

Doesn't look that bad to me. The wall is showing no signs of distress on the outside, no bowing or anything daft? If it looks OK then on the inside brush it down well with a stiff hand brush (buy a "churn brush"), wet it & point up roughly with some lime mortar, then lime plaster over the top - job's a good'un.

Don't forget it would only ever have been rough brickwork, unlike the outer face it was never meant to have been seen. A good brickie would have separated out the rough bricks to use on the inside.

 

[Cubist]

There you go with that loose 'expert' term again - the most common expertise is how to liberate cash from your wallet.

Feltwell is right, stabilise any loose bricks, bowing or movement and plaster over.

 

[Feltwell]

Just to reassure - here's the inside of a perfectly good, always been dry Victorian wall that I've just taken the plaster off:-



Here's the outside of the same wall:-



Yes, the inside of mine is better than yours - It's just because yours has been damp - but it still doesn't look like the outside. . Don't forget to check the external pointing, that may need redoing.

 

[Cassie]

That is really very reassuring, thank you both! The outside is rendered, a few hairline cracks, but dead straight, so hopefully ok! I just had a productive wander down the road and a nosy in one of the houses being stripped. They’ve gone right back to brick everywhere and the brickwork looks as crappy as mine in places, so I’m not alone! Unfortunately, they are just cementing over it . But they did say I could have their folding shutters when they come out, so that’s a result! Conservation officer is making them keep the wooden sash windows though so won’t be getting my hands on them

 

[stuart45]

The poor quality bricks from the kiln would normally be used on inside work. In the 80's there was a time when reclaimed bricks were popular for some new builds. However as many of them were inside bricks after a couple of winters they were spalling. They did start producing new bricks to mimic the old reclaims. Some had white or black paint, others mortar stains etc.
Always worth bearing in mind when using reclaims for external work.

 

[malcolm]

I suspect the reason reclaimed bricks spalled was they were laid in cement. My garden wall had the most terribly fired bricks but they did last for a couple of hundred years until someone decided to cement point them. I've turned them around and they should be good until the next person decided to use cement on them. https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/threads/period-garden-wall-coping.17054/

 

[stuart45]

Cement mortar would have added to the problem, although the better-quality face bricks lasted the distance. Even when lime mortar was being used bricks were sorted into different piles. Picked and shippers were the best, shuffs, place, washed and grizzles only for inside work.

 

[Cassie]

The poor quality bricks from the kiln would normally be used on inside work. In the 80's there was a time when reclaimed bricks were popular for some new builds. However as many of them were inside bricks after a couple of winters they were spalling. They did start producing new bricks to mimic the old reclaims. Some had white or black paint, others mortar stains etc.
Always worth bearing in mind when using reclaims for external work.

I’ll just reclaim them from my garden . There are bricks everywhere

 

[Cassie]

I suspect the reason reclaimed bricks spalled was they were laid in cement. My garden wall had the most terribly fired bricks but they did last for a couple of hundred years until someone decided to cement point them. I've turned them around and they should be good until the next person decided to use cement on them. https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/threads/period-garden-wall-coping.17054/

Another interesting thread. My garden walls are brick. It’s about 400ft long, 100ft wide. At the house end, the wall is about 12ft high, at the end of the gentle upward slope, a more manageable 6ft. They have never been repointed and it shows. I think I need to have a repointing party or I’ll be long dead by the time it gets done

 

[stuart45]

I’ll just reclaim them from my garden . There are bricks everywhere

I've seen the photo of yours, LBC flettons. They used to be the cheapest brick around, but nowadays are around £1.20 each.

 

[Cassie]

I’ve got lots, maybe I can make a few quid . Lots of other ones lying around but while rummaging around for window bits earlier I found a big pile of different ones with holes in- they look like the garden wall bricks. Will be handy for the massive repair job that awaits

 

[stuart45]

Is your garden wall 400ft long Cassie? That's around 36,000 bricks for a 9 inch wall at an average of 9ft.

 

[Cassie]

Yep. Like I said, I need some pals to help. I’ll provide the beer and lime Quick photo out of the kitchen. You can’t see the back from here (jungle) but it goes a very long way!

 

[Cassie]

Ours is the only house on the street that is still a whole house and has the whole garden. The local history society have done a little high five that we’re restoring it to a proper family home. Could do without the massive redwood in the garden though-bloody victorians

 

[malcolm]

Another interesting thread. My garden walls are brick. It’s about 400ft long, 100ft wide. At the house end, the wall is about 12ft high, at the end of the gentle upward slope, a more manageable 6ft. They have never been repointed and it shows. I think I need to have a repointing party or I’ll be long dead by the time it gets done

If there is one thing I've learned working on my place is that it is far too big.

Almost everything I've done so far has been reversing damage inflicted by concrete and waterproof paints over the last 50 years. I can get vocal on that theme. Lime and linseed will reduce maintenance to once every 100 or more years though I might start getting fed up with doing that when I get to 150 years old.

Oddly neglect never seems to have caused me too much work. It's probably a good choice for anything not falling down or rotting away.

 

[Cassie]

I feel you! Of course it’s way too big, but my old ma needed looking after and this looked like the best bet to get her in-lower ground floor all hers, but I’m on hand . She calls it the servants quarter (probably accurate) . We call it grandma’s dungeon. I guess the garden walls have held up for a very long time. They’ll probably wait until I’m retired and have nothing else to do

 

[Feltwell]

The only way to stay sane with an old house is to remind yourself that whatever is wrong it's probably been that way for years, and unless it's something major and structural the house won't fall down if it waits a bit longer.

Top down is not a bad maxim either - start off by making sure the roof is watertight, and the gutters work.

Only listening to half the advice you are given, and ignoring half of that, also keeps you sane

 

[Cassie]

The first thing I did was get the scaffolding up and get the gutters/fascia/soffits sorted. Had the roof looked at by an “expert” All good apparently. A year later with a leak in one of the bedrooms, scaffolding up again to redo the hip tiles Surprisingly, this is not my first time at the rodeo despite my clearly clueless presentation! I had to do a renovation on the first house I ever bought. Not going to lie, I totally bodged it. But it was wet up to 2 ft from the earth floor (under all the layers of newspaper and Lino) and had had structural walls removed with nothing put in to replace. The upstairs was basically a trampoline . No hot water, no kitchen, no bathroom. Happy days