Bricking up doorway - flush or inset?

[Spoilt Victorian Child]

Next month I'm having a doorway bricked up at the back of the house as part of a kitchen move around. It's up the side return where no-one really goes. It has an original lintel above it.

I'll use reclaimed bricks and my builder assures me he can patch them is 'so well you'd never know'. But I am now wondering whether to see if he's able to inset the brickwork slightly to 'show the history of the building'. Kind of like the bricked up 'window tax' windows you see on old buildings. And so there isn't just an odd lintel floating in the wall.

I drove past a place that had had it done on their frontage, and thought it looked sweet, interesting and respectful. Here's a streetview link to it:
https://goo.gl/maps/9rXAU (this was taken mid renovation, the finished house looks much prettier!)

But I don't know if I'm making a mountain out of a molehill/throwing money away, if the builder can even do it (eg. how are the new bricks tied in to the old ones???) or what general opinion is on this sort of thing. When it comes to re-sale, do people actually want flat walls?! My house isn't historically significant, just old.

Also, on my house there is another doorway next to the one I mentioned that was badly bricked up years ago (bottom half yellow bricks, ran out, so top half red bricks(!)), and again it's left a floating lintel. So I'm considering getting that re-done at the same time. Am I mad?

 

[formerly known as]

inset always gets my vote. take great care when reusing old bricks to ensure that 'external' grade bricks are used - reclaim yards ALWAYS batch up bricks together, so you can easily end up with softer under fired bricks used externally. also, reclaimed bricks can have worn arrises which stands them apart from adjacent work. I would always err on the side of using new imperial sized bricks - a bit more 'honest' and it keeps the industry going.

 

[CliffordPope]

The builder converting our derelict Victorian railway station at work constructed a large new brick archway in a wall and it is genuinely impossible to tell it apart from its original twin. But that is because he used the demolished bricks, so they are a perfect match.

I like the idea of a slight recess, and replacing the other one while you are about it.

 

[malcolm]

There is a door here which has been bricked up inset without tying in bricks or removing the lintel. It's handy as it's just where I want to put a door.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I agree, I would make the change in as sensitive way as possible, so that if someone wants to put it back, they can do so with the minimum of bother, so filling in leaving the original opening clearly visible gets my vote.

 

[Flyfisher]

Is there any real need to tie the bricks into the adjacent brickwork? Presumably the building is already perfectly stable with an open doorway so the new bricks only have to fill the void and support themselves. Not tying in would cause no damage the existing building and would be easily reversed, again without damage to the original building.

 

[formerly known as]

The doorway might or might not have foundation below it. if there are none, then foundations will be required. if there are foundations, then the additional weight of the infill might cause differential settlement, as might the provision of new foundation and infill. either way, a straight joint in lime mortar against adjacent historic fabric will allow some movement to accommodate the settlement. if however, the section of infill will be subject to any force other than compressive force, some tie may be required - this could be just 50mm mesh plugged and screwed into the existing walling bedjoints.

 

[Feltwell]

Inset gets my vote, without question. And I also concur with those who query why you'd need to bother to tie in.

If you really wanted to then starter bars round the inside of the doorway would perhaps be a way to do it, and would only require a few holes drilling - underneath where the old frame went, so all reversible without visible damage.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/sabrefix-...rch-_-SearchRec-_-Area2&_requestid=195066#_=p

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Also, on my house there is another doorway next to the one I mentioned that was badly bricked up years ago (bottom half yellow bricks, ran out, so top half red bricks(!)), and again it's left a floating lintel. So I'm considering getting that re-done at the same time. Am I mad?

Well, if the reason for making a sensitive recessed job of the opening you are bricking up is to make the history of the house "readable", isn't it the case that leaving the badly done, couldn't care less, blocking up of the adjacent opening untouched would also leave something of the history of the house, in this case the lack of care a previous owner demonstrated, on display for future generations too? Wouldn't tidying it up falsify that period of the house's history? :?

 

[Spoilt Victorian Child]

Well, this is the doorway and surrounding mess as it stands. It's a very good point Gareth, but judge for yourself wether you'd keep the existing alterations to show the history of the house?! I'd forogtten about the pantry window that now appears to have a 1920s leaded front door glass in it.

Didn't realise the inset technique allows doors and windows to be easily re-instated, doh. Seems obvious now.

What to do about all that rendering too.... hmmmmmm.

 

[Feltwell]

Another option is to use blockwork to block the doors up with, then render & paint it - I.e. Deliberately make no attempt to match the surrounding brickwork. Do this inset, paint it white and it could sit quite well with the plinth and lintels.
Certainly an "honest" approach.

 

[Spoilt Victorian Child]

With reclaimed bricks getting on for £3 each in my area, that would certainly be the cheapest option!

There's an internal wall coming down (just behind the doorway). Are the bricks likely to be suitable for outdoor facing use? How does one tell?

Also, if the brickwork is inset, how do you make the bricks fit? Do the breeze blocks behind the facing bricks have to be sliced down in width??

 

[noj]

In our little cottage all the doors are still on the outside...

Inside however, one's behind a plasterboard stud wall, one's covered in breeze blocks with a couple of airbricks to keep the spiders happy and the third has a sheet of plywood over most of it that has been covered in ceramic tiles (with a 6" gap down to floor level behind the fridge). Surely this is a more rational approach - I don't understand why you'd want something weatherproof, insulated and that won't rot in a period property when there's the option of a bodge available?

All the work of various PO's I hasten to add...

 

[Spoilt Victorian Child]

Well, I've lost the battle for inset bricks.

The structural engineer said the narrow column between the two doorways would not be strong enough on its own to support the new RSJ that's going in directly above it So the bricked up doorways either need to be tied-in, or a pier needs building on the inside wall (which kind of defeats the reason I'm having the RSJ put in).

So my next question is, do I leave the lintels in? Will they look odd just floating there in the middle of a wall?

 

[steveb]

well, you already have a couple of odd floating lintels so one more won't hurt?

in fact, if you get a decent brickie to re-do the old left hand door in bricks of at least the same sort of colour and age at the same time, the effect will probably be moderately pleasing. at least to me

but I like odd - your mileage may vary

 

[88v8]

Aesthetically and practically, I wouldn't remove the lintels. It will just create a greater area of disturbance, and their presence is a historic footnote.

In what direction is the pillar allegedly deficient in strength?

Far more offensive to the eye, my eye at least on the strength of that photo, is the overly high rendered plinth. However, removing it may create such a tell-tale that it's best left.

I like leaded lights, but that one would have to grow on me.

Ivor

 

[plasticpigeon]

Why are you having an RSJ put in? I'd be wondering what the original layout was. Surely not 2 doors together. Could the left hand one have been a door, and the middle and right hand ones windows? The little window, was that always there or do you think it has been punched through at a later date? I think the lintels would look odd hanging, but I would still leave them, and I'm sure they could be incorporated into an overall scheme, which I think would look better if there was some ovbious feature below them. I wonder if you structural engineer is being lazy and just coming up with the easiest solution, i. e. using some rule of thumb and "experience". That is most peoples attitude. The calculations should be pretty easy. If a brick has a compressive strength of 7N/mm^2 (the lowest I found on an internet search) which is roughly 0.7kg/mm^2 then 1 brick (assuming a 9 x 4) can support around 640kg, or just over half a ton. so it will be necessary to work out the weight that needs to be supported and the area that the rsj is supported by. There will be a way of getting the best aesthetic solution and making the building solid.