Brick arch or oak lintel for fireplace?

[Minkeycat]

We're unearthing an old fireplace. It was bricked up and filled with rubble when the chimney stack was removed almost a century ago and was then plastered over, painted with pitch and plastered again (at least we're now eliminating a major damp issue in that corner!) The chimney stack was on the outside of the house which apparently dates it to 16th/17th Century. The fireplace is off centre and has been reduced in size at least once in its life time. It consisted of an arch made of two rows of bricks which haven't fared well trapped inside a damp wall so they're crumbly and decayed and there's not much rescuing to be done. We don't know whether to replace it with another brick arch the same as the old one or to get an oak lintel so it matches the other two fireplaces in the house. The oak lintel is probably an easier job but the bricks are obviously what was there.

Who would do what? We're intrigued to find out what others think.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I'd put an arch in.

 

[CliffordPope]

With reclaimed period bricks?

 

[Minkeycat]

Yes, we have the bricks already should we go down that route but also have a potential beam in our sights.

 

[Flyfisher]

We're unearthing an old fireplace. . . . . The fireplace is off centre and has been reduced in size at least once in its life time. . . . We don't know whether to replace it with another brick arch the same as the old one or to get an oak lintel so it matches the other two fireplaces in the house.

It's not unusual for originally large fireplaces to have been filled in and replaced with smaller ones over time. I've opened up a small, off centre, brick fireplace and ended up removing two more previous fireplace arrangements before getting back to the original six foot wide and four feet high inglenook. So my first question would be are you sure you've opened up the existing fireplace to its full extent - especially as you say other fireplaces in the house have oak lintels? If so, and you're confident that the original fireplace had a brick arch then that's what I'd be inclined to replace it with. But that's just my opinion and I'm sure others are equally valid - it's your house, so your choice. Subject to any listing constraints of course.

 

[Kearn]

Pics would be helpful/interesting?

Not sure what you mean by off centre? Fireplace to room? Opening to room? Opening within fireplace? Being of the age you assume, being symmetrical wasn't really a strong feature! Ours certainly was not built centrally in the late 1500s.
What are the dimensions? how wide and deep is the stack from the rear / width of piers / arch opening width and height?
Depending on your house and original wealth, a fire of said age would've been 8/9 foot wide, 2/3 deep and the beam about eye height or just below when stood at original floor level. I believe brick aches of this size were the domain of grander properties rather than cottages , but obviously not always! I remember a thread on here where someone restored two lovely wide similar age openings, both brick arches - try searching 'medieval fireplace'

I guess the question is what you will be doing with the fireplace? And therefore how far you're willing to go with restoration? The reason I say this, as once you strip back to original, (which may well not be the arch, especially if the piers either side are more than a brick/brick and a half wide and the arch isn't almost flat) then you will be able to read what was there from the brick work. Closures will tell you where original edges were, and whether there once was a beam sat on the piers, although depending where the stack was removed from, these traces and corbelling may have sadly gone? Also, going to original hearth will uncover the base of the original piers and footprint. Having restored ours c.late 1500s, we discovered the footprint to have been almost 2ft reduced on one side.

No stack is a real shame, will you be reinstating, or is this just visual?

Short answer, replace what was originally there ideally. Beams in other rooms would imply a beam, assuming similar size/age? Interestingly, we have a very early Georgian wing, early 1700s, fireplace here mimics the earlier main inglenook by originally being an opened beamed fire, later slightly reduced to Georgian carved wooden framed opening.

Sounds inteststing...

 

[Kearn]

My mistake - it was both a brick arch and oak beam!! Here's the post:
https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15350&p=210941&hilit=Medieval#p210884

Also if you're interested, here's most of the progress on ours:
https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15970

 

[Minkeycat]

Thanks all. We're going to stick with what was there as far as possible. The old brick has clearly suffered from years of abuse being plastered into a wall which then had a damp problem so it's a bit crumbly these days. It's also been cemented in places at some point in the last few decades. Our plan will be to clean it up as far as possible but not to 'over clean' it, replace what we can't save with similar brick and apply a clear product to lock in the dust. Next questions therefore are...

Does anyone have any tips on cleaning up the surface of bricks without damaging them? A few of them have a thin layer of hardened cement on them.

Can anyone suggest a product that will seal the surface of the bricks to prevent dust but that doesn't have a glossy finish and that won't darken the brick?

Many thanks again for the valuable input
All the best

 

[Kearn]

Our Tudor stack was cleaned up by hand, slowly and gently - no checmicals, although I expect many will recommend brick acid etc.

The tool, I cannot recall the name of, is effectively a stubby brick chisel, except the end is not a flat edge, but multiple points, so if drawn along something soft it would leave multiple parallel lines. This works well for both chipping and scraping to coax off render well. Then sandpaper/wire wool to finish the surface. If you don't have too many to do, then it won't take that long and you're in complete control of pressure so will minimise damage. Plus it is super rewarding!

Sealing - why??? Personally I can see no point here, and nor would my historic stone mason / inglenook guy who has been doing this for close to 50 years. You're doing the hard part, to sensibly free the surface and let the bricks breath, they don't need to be sealed again. I don't understand the concern regarding brick dust - we have many exposed ancient bricks on walls, floors, chimneys from 1500-1700s in our house - all beautiful and left in their natural state, except those that have previously been covered and now unfortunately lost their fire skin - but all are lovely as they are and I would never dream of applying chemicals to them.

Are we going to get some piccies of the lovely fireplace?!

 

[Flyfisher]

The tool, I cannot recall the name of, is effectively a stubby brick chisel, except the end is not a flat edge, but multiple points, so if drawn along something soft it would leave multiple parallel lines. This works well for both chipping and scraping to coax off render well.

Sounds like a scutch/scutching chisel - a very useful tool indeed

https://www.wonkeedonkeetools.co.uk/chisels/what-is-a-scutch-comb-chisel/

 

[livias]

>Can anyone suggest a product that will seal the surface of the bricks to prevent dust but that doesn't have a glossy finish and that won't darken the brick?

Lime water. Which is lime putty stirred into water and allowed to settle for 24 hours leaving what looks like clear water but has lime suspended in it.

Spray it on the brick
Wash out the sprayer nozzle cos otherwise it will clog up
Wait 24 hours
Repeat until ... you get bored. Maybe one week

Effectively you are turning your brick to stone. This technique works on fragile timber too

 

[Kearn]

The tool, I cannot recall the name of, is effectively a stubby brick chisel, except the end is not a flat edge, but multiple points, so if drawn along something soft it would leave multiple parallel lines. This works well for both chipping and scraping to coax off render well.

Sounds like a scutch/scutching chisel - a very useful tool indeed

https://www.wonkeedonkeetools.co.uk/chisels/what-is-a-scutch-comb-chisel/

Yes!! Thank you, that was really bugging me. Knew it was something odd sounding.... :lol:

 

[Minkeycat]

This is very helpful. Thank you all very much!