BREEAM & EPC's Detrimental to Listed&Historic Buildings???

[Dquincy]

I'm writing a paper investigation the relationship on whether Listed Buildings could suffer due to the introduction of BREEAM and EPC's and would be grateful if anyone would share their views or point me in the right direction for literature, case studies, etc on the relevant subjects?

I know EPC's do not require any further improvements, but do you feel that stating a property has a poor thermal rating and poor energy efficiency could led to lower rental rates?

Thanks

 

[MdB]

What is BREEAM and what are EPCs?

I would also give a bit more info as to what you are trying to find out.

 

[Pford75]

BREEAM is the world’s longest standing and most widely used environmental assessment method for buildings. It sets the standard for best practice in sustainable development and demonstrates a level of achievement. It has become the vocabulary used to describe a building's environmental performance

The Code Scoring System

The Code has a scoring system of six levels. The different levels are made up by achieving both the appropriate mandatory minimum standards together with a proportion of the ‘flexible’ standards.

So it's quite complex then.....6 whole levels. :wink:

 

[biffvernon]

http://www.breeam.org/

We came across this little outfit (BRE) who recently produced a so-called Green Guide http://www.bre.co.uk/greenguide/page.jsp?sid=435 in the thread about uPVC windows being, allegedly, the most environmentally friendly. I await the ASA's ruling.

But, Dquincy, welcome to the forum and do tell us a bit more about what you're after and why so that we can help you in the constructive and friendly manner that we are famed for. (Sorry, that was an in-joke. You'll get the hang of it eventually.) As far as I see it BREEAM is rather much about new builds. How does it relate to our old wrecks?

 

[Dquincy]

Chaps, thanks for the replies.

Well, i know what EPC's & BREEAM are about (to a degree) but i want to talk to someone who has experienced these with a listed building.

Regarding BREEAM, i have been assisting in a project which is existing and we are refurbing, inc a change of use. However i have no experience with them and listed buildings.

 

[Penners]

We put our listed (GII) building on the market last year. We naturally had to have a HIP, including an EPC. The building is mainly an 18th-century Suffolk timberframe structure, rendered externally with concrete ( ) over EML, and lined internally partly with lime plaster over wood laths and partly with plasterboard/gypsum skim. The cavity is filled with rockwool.

The EP assessor arrived to do his stuff, and I explained the structure of the building to him. He said that he was unable to take the rockwool insulation into account, because he couldn't see it. I offered to drill a few holes internally at random points of his choosing, but he refused this offer. He explained that he was obliged to asses the thermal efficiency of the walls based on the standard required by the Building Regulations at the time the house was built.

How we laughed.... :roll:

As a result of this, our EPC showed a fairly poor result. I was worried that this would affect our sale, and I discussed it with the estate agent.

"Oh, don't worry about that," he said. "Nobody pays any attention to the EPC or the HIP."

And he was absolutely right. We had sixteen viewings, and two offers on the house, and not one person even mentioned the HIP or the EPC. The offers both fell through, but for reasons related to the collapsed market. Nothing whatsoever to do with the energy performance of the house.

 

[ljn]

Hi Dquincy, I would be very interested to read your paper when finished.

Not on BREEM, but on a more general, you could check out this book:
"In Detail: Building in Existing Fabric by: Christian Schittich, Imprint:Birkhäuser, München 2007"
The introduction has stats and facts on why saving and adapting buildings and eco issues.

And this page on Existing Housing and Climate Change: House of Commons Minutes of Evidence, Communities and Local Government Committee 12.11. 2007
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmselect/cmcomloc/uc70-i/uc7002.htm

I was trying to find a recent post on this forum about efficiency, saying very old buildings aren't bad, while those constructed between 1930 and 1990 are terrible. It was an american article, maybe by someone who now advises Obama?

There was also an interesting article posted on PPUK on a Victorian house in London, (Camden?) which the council used as an test on bringing a historic building up to today's standards of energy efficiency, it started with pressure testing the old house and went down hill from there. A story of cock-up somewhere between funny and tragic. Maybe someone can re-post the link? I think this is the house: http://www.building.co.uk/sustain_story.asp?storycode=3122165

 

[Flyfisher]

The EP assessor arrived to do his stuff, and I explained the structure of the building to him. He said that he was unable to take the rockwool insulation into account, because he couldn't see it. I offered to drill a few holes internally at random points of his choosing, but he refused this offer. He explained that he was obliged to asses the thermal efficiency of the walls based on the standard required by the Building Regulations at the time the house was built.

Is it any wonder there is such cynicism about these new laws when simple commonsense is deliberately excluded from the process?

So anyone who has invisibly improved the insulation of their property cannot - even if they expose it for inspection or, presumably, show any form of documentary evidence - have it taken into account by the assessor. What's the point of the assessment then - just give them the date of construction and they can fill in the forms from that information alone.

No wonder people ignore these reports.

 

[ljn]

If historic buildings can't be properly assessed because they don't fit with the criteria on the tick-box form, they should either be exempt from the assessment.

 

[Penners]

If the law (in its infinite wisdom) requires houses to have an EPC, then I don't think I'm in favour of exempting period or listed buildings.

But there should be much more leeway for the assessor to include narrative opinion as to the type of structure, typical energy performance figures for that type of structure, and so on. This would, in my view, give potential purchasers a much more informative picture of the property than does a childishly simple colour chart, originally designed to be used for washing machines and fridges. :roll:

 

[ljn]

A more narrative approach would require more knowledgeable assessors and could increase their exposure to legal challenges.

That could mean all assessors get trained on assessing the energey performance of historic buildings. Already they are complaining that they have wasted money on the original training courses because there isn't enough work. Or there could be EPA specialists for historic buildings.

In any case, there may be a higher cost involved, wether it is due to the surveyors insurance, the additional time required for the survey or the additional knowledge required.

The higher cost for assessing period buildings would seem reasonable, but an extra cost could be one more reason for the less sympathetic owners to burn places down, rip out old windows windows etc.

 

[Penners]

A more narrative approach would require more knowledgeable assessors and could increase their exposure to legal challenges.

I fear that your first point is probably correct (requirement for more knowledge). However, I see no reason why the appropriate disclaimers could not be incorporated into the Energy Assessment, to protect against the legal risks. After all, they're not going to be any more inaccurate than they are already.