bowing wall

[dragonfly]

I'm in the process of buying a 300 year old brick and tile cottage/ ex- farmhouse. The surveyor has picked up that the front wall is bowing out around the brickwork near one of the bedroom windows, with a small gap between floorboards and wall internally and so we are having to get a structural engineer's report on that because he's not sure if it is historical or recent movement. Oh, and then there's the woodworm- but that seems almost a badge of honour to the period property owner! We're not buying the house to do up and sell on, but intend it as our long term family home. Just wondered if anyone else had had similar experiences ( probably silly question on this forum!) and what advice you can give to someone whose oldest previous home was a victorian terraced miners cottage which had been 'done up' before we got into it! I suppose I am panicking a bit because the buyers of my current house want to be in on 29th June and I can see myself homless if this all carries on too long.....!!!! :shock:

Great forum by the way

 

[Nemesis]

Hmmm. I have a friend who was supposed to move today, her furniture has gone off in a van and the solicitors have failed to complete.

So it happens!

 

[skier-hughes]

Woodworm I wouldn't worry too much about unless you can see it is active. If you search woodworm on the forum it'll give you lots of info.
Drying it out and ventilationare the two most common remedies.

As for the bowing wall, I suspect the structural engineer will give you the best advice on this.

If you don't want to lose your buyer and they need to be in, I'd say be prepared to rent for a while or find out who your real friends are :wink:

Graham

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

Personally I find these days that I'm bowing out in various places, and that's after only thirty-odd years, so I'd not be too concerned about a bit of movement in a 300 year old property.
If it's dormant - fine. If it's active movement then you get it diagnosed and fixed. In a house of that age we're not talking about rocket science. Or possibly just ignore it.
You're taking a long term view on this property which is great, so don't be put off by defects. And remember that surveyors and suchlike talk in terms which cover their butts against future liability; the house has been up for 300 years and unless it's obviously about to slump to the ground it will probably be up for a few more yet.
When we bought ours we were expecting the mortgage company to be very twitchy about a failed lintel over the front door, with major water ingress and structural cracking. They didn't even mention it in their valuation report.
Go for it, and good luck. I'm sure we'll be hearing from you again!

 

[Nemesis]

Same friend's survey on house she was hoping to move to today came up with 'possible structural movement have checked by engineer'!

She didn't, thinks movement is ancient, but had trouble getting insurance. The surveyor wouldn't commit on how serious the apparent movement was. She has re-insured with the vendors insurers.

It's something worth checking out.

PS she also had to take out Chancel repairs insurance, the vendor had to supply windows insurance as they hadn't the appropriate safety kitemark... she also had to provide indemnity for things at her own houes for the buyer to satisfy their solicitors... it's all such a scam!

 

[Flyfisher]

Hmmm. I have a friend who was supposed to move today, her furniture has gone off in a van and the solicitors have failed to complete.

So it happens!

A similar thing happened to my sister-in-law . . . . but 6 months after she had already moved in and re-vamped the place!

It turned out the conveyance was a right mess, complicated by a house being divided into two flats and the developer doing a runner leaving debts to the bank etc etc. The solicitors had been trying to sort it out without really saying anything, at least not until they could hide it no more and everything eventually fell through.

The solicitors were very helpful though and their insurance paid for everything including all the actual re-vamping costs, legal costs, mortgage costs and a decent amount of additional compensation. Not the sort of thing you really expect though.

 

[Nemesis]

Where there is a chain it's all so difficult. Hope the furniture is OK!!!

 

[Penners]

the vendor had to supply windows insurance as they hadn't the appropriate safety kitemark

Oh no! Neither have mine - at least I don't think so.

Where should I look on 18th century windows to find the kitemark?

:roll:

 

[skier-hughes]

Which way is the prevailing wind?
Start with those :wink:

 

[Nemesis]

The crazy thing is apparently they aren't to current safety standard as they don't have the kitemark, and in the case of fire they might not be able to be shattered in order to esape.

These are uPVC DG units with faux leadwork.

Yes I know - my friend is going to replace them, they are really not nice, totally at odds with a period building, but the daft thing is these are fully opening casements and if in event of fire she intends not to smash her way out with a hammer but to open them.

 

[Lime]

Same friend's survey on house she was hoping to move to today came up with 'possible structural movement have checked by engineer'!

She didn't, thinks movement is ancient, but had trouble getting insurance. The surveyor wouldn't commit on how serious the apparent movement was. She has re-insured with the vendors insurers.
................

Using the previous owner's insurance company is a very good way to overcome many problems thrown up by some of the sillier questions sometimes asked of a new purchase.
It works for cars too!

 

[dragonfly]

thanks for all the replies. I had taken the same sort of line in terms of, if it has lasted 300 years it's not going to fall down in the next 6 months. Husband was very panicked when his dad (who has worked in the building trade) looked at the wall and pronounced (with the usual hand on chin, head shaking tut, tut that builders love) that he thought it would be £50 - 60K to put right. Husband gulped and started checking the property pages again. He's calmed down now, as we really love the house and the location, so as long as we haven't got to fork out the £50 within weeks of moving in we'll be ok - says me, touching every piece of wood that I can....... :lol:

PS, dad-in law is an electrician, so where he picked up the tut-tutting from I don't know!

 

[dragonfly]

So a short update on where we are. Structural engineer and woodworm company both going in on Thursday to check out the things that the surveyor picked up and put in the valuation report - i.e. movement in the front wall and wood boring beetle infestation. At the moment we have approx £20K set aside from our equity in order to get started on the work needed - (anticipating a long and happy life in the house rather than a quick fix, sale and profit job). Does this seem like a realistic amount to those expereinced restorers out there - I have heard that engineer quotes tend to be higher than the work is likely to cost. I know it's difficult to estimate without more detail, but I am trying to keep the head ruling the transaction. At the moment the surveyor has told the mortgage company not to lend on it due to the problems, so am wondering, if a retention is put on, what size can I expect. Not too reassured by the mortgage advisor today who said that by this point most buyers would have been frightened off so she doesn't usually have to deal with this situation!

Another problem may also have reared its ugly head. Spoke to the conservation officer today on an unrelated matter, it seems that the DPC that was done (surveyor reported on it and we can see the holes where it was injected in one of the rooms) may not have LB permission as the CO couldn't find the approval on his database. Spoke to the agent who talked about the vendor getting an indemnity insurance - does this sound about right. Sorry for being such a novice, but i am determined to set off on the right foot.

 

[Craig]

Interesting point - does an injected DPC require LBC? No physical change to the historical property , etc.?

Re your other point - engineers estimates are often just for the fix and they may not include for all the titivation required afterwards...

 

[dragonfly]

not bothered about the titivation - if you saw my dress sense you would understand!!! Just want to know that I am going to have a house that won't cost huge amounts to stop it falling down. Internally it is not at all offensive (can even get to like the heavily honeysuckle patterned bedroom wallpaper), and it is very clean and we are quite happy to leave prettying it up for however long so long as the basic structure is sound enough that we don't get wet or too cold over winter!

 

[Penners]

Interesting point - does an injected DPC require LBC? No physical change to the historical property , etc.?

No physical change? You mean other than hundreds of holes drilled right around the perimeter of the building?

As regards LBC, I certainly wouldn't attempt to do this without at least a verbal go-ahead from the CO. But whether you'd get that......

 

[dragonfly]

:lol: :lol: :lol: Could have predicted the woodworm report, just from the posts I have read here. All the company have done is to quote me on how much it would cost to spray the roof void and 1st floor timbers, after, of course, either myself or my contractor (!?) has removed floor coverings and insulation. And that is after I specifically asked for a report detailing whether there were and what areas showed active woodworm.

On the mortgage valuation report all it said was something along the lines of ' evidence of woodboring insect infestation, get a report from a member of the BWPDA'. So I asked for a report which detailed specific areas requiring treatment and got a report which said that in a building 300 years old infestation is likely so spraying is recomended, along with their quotation for getting the work done. Can anyone give me an idea as to whether mortgage companies will accept that sort of report. By the way, have been with the Nationwiode for a while so trying to port across. From some other posts this could be a bad thing.

 

[Juju]

My surveyor suspected active woodworm in our cellar and attic. It didn't affect the mortgage though. I got a reputable company in who said the attic was fine and well, they couldn't say for certain it was active in the cellar but quoted for spraying anyway and left it with me. I left it for a while as on the advice of the forum I didn't want to be spraying chemicals unnecessarily. But anyway, it was definitely active cos we recently found that a joist had partly been munched, leaving a pile of dust. We've had the cellar sprayed now (as environmentally friendly a chemical as possible! Not sure if that was just hype but re-entry time was just one hour and it was very low odour) and will be putting a dehumidifier in there now to ensure the critters don't come back.

Anyway, just to say that the woodworm might be the least of your worries.

 

[Matt Green]

So I asked for a report which detailed specific areas requiring treatment and got a report which said that in a building 300 years old infestation is likely so spraying is recomended, along with their quotation for getting the work done.

Send their report to the HSE. Please.

This:
http://www.bangor.ac.uk/ohs/safety_pages/inflink/pesticide.htm

is a good summary article. Particularly:

When is a pesticide necessary?

The decision to apply a pesticide should only be made after careful consideration of problem. This will include: pest
identification, damage, and probable degree of infestation. Alternative measures such as better housekeeping,
improving ventilation, biological control or integrated pest management (IPM) should always be considered. Anyone without the competence to decide these issues should seek advice from an expert.

Saying that the use of an organophosphate pesticide is warranted just because the timber is old is incredibly reckless.

Blanket treatment is very rarely ever warranted (and I bet they weren't going to remove the dust from the timbers before they sprayed either). Please don't do it.


Matt

 

[Matt Green]

I got a reputable company in who said the attic was fine and well, they couldn't say for certain it was active in the cellar but quoted for spraying anyway and left it with me. I left it for a while as on the advice of the forum I didn't want to be spraying chemicals unnecessarily. But anyway, it was definitely active cos we recently found that a joist had partly been munched, leaving a pile of dust. We've had the cellar sprayed now (as environmentally friendly a chemical as possible! Not sure if that was just hype but re-entry time was just one hour and it was very low odour) and will be putting a dehumidifier in there now to ensure the critters don't come back.

1. They weren't reputable- they quoted for spraying.

2. The damage would be in the sapwood. Not all the timbers were at risk.

3. Why didn't you just treat the affected area?

4. (For the sake of arguement lets say that I like the idea of putting a de-humidifer in a basement and it works well to reduce the timber moisture content) Why not just reduce the timber moisture content without spraying: same net result, no pesticide, money saved.

Crazy.


Matt.