borax for woodworm

[charlie-ia]

our house is not as dry as it could be, but its better than it was. we still have no heating either. the whole place is seething with woodworm - would borax be any good in our case? i read for active woodworm insertion of borax rods are recommended. can we do this ourselves, and where would we get them? is it really necessary, or would painting on a soultion be just as good?
as always any extra hints and tips much appereciated.
thanks

 

[PC]

Charlie-ia,

Firstly, is the woodworm active, if not is don't need treating!

What insect are you dealing with ? Furniture Beetle or Death Watch.

If active, heating wont influence the control of woodworm in the roof or ground floor areas, where (generally) most activity is found, although in long term can assit with control in first floor timbers. Good ventilation however will assist and reducing moisture in timbers where practical.

Forget the use of Borax for treatment, as there is no evidence that Borax will eradicate active infestations.

Borax rods are used as a fungicide treatment when inserted into timbers. They react with moisture and diffuse active ingredient into timber. Again no use against Woodworm!!!

Hope that helps.

PC


* Belated Christmas greetings to all the regulars, been out the country for a few weeks on business.

PC

 

[Juliet M Rayner]

Please would you tell me what you would use to treat active woodworm. I am renovating an Essex featherboard studio which has some wet rot at the bottom, some woodworm in the boards and some in the uprights. Thanks Juliet

 

[Penners]

Picking up on what PC has said, I notice that both of you suffering from woodworm have damp problems too. According to previous posts by experts on this forum (one of whom is unfortunately unable to post any more, due to a job change), woodworm will not survive in dry wood. So you may find that simply drying out the damp problem will also serve to eradicate the woodworm.

However, I understand that borax (sodium borate) will indeed kill woodworm, and is said to be much safer than many of the toxic chemicals used for this job.

http://www.ourproperty.co.uk/guides/woodworm_control-p1.html

http://www.healthyhouse.co.uk/products/borax_woodworm_treatment.php

Here are a couple of techniques for checking whether your woodworm infestation is still active (which may not be the case). Firstly, look directly below any flight holes and see whether you see any small piles of fresh wood-dust (known as "frass"). These are an indication of live infestation.

Secondly, before the flight season, when the pupated beetles emerge from the wood and fly away, paste some tissue paper over some of the more heavily punctured areas of wood. As the beetles emerge, they will puncture the paper, and you'll be able to see this. Unfortunately you've missed this year's flying season, which is the Spring, but maybe next year...?

 

[Juliet M Rayner]

Thanks for your advice Penners. I am really relieved that borax is a possibility as I have ruined one of my Killer sprays in the past using wonderfully heady solvent insecticide. I have some pannels that I really want to paint this year once the roof has been replaced. They have odd burrows on the lower thicker edges. I cannot really remove these or spray from the inside as I would have to take out all the plaster board in my bathroom. Would it be crazy to spray the featherboard with borax on the outside and painting when dry with Water based Bedec Barn paint? I could watch out for burrows next year. Thanks Juliet.

 

[Penners]

I am really relieved that borax is a possibility as I have ruined one of my Killer sprays in the past using wonderfully heady solvent insecticide.

There are much more important reasons for avoiding toxic, solvent-based chemicals than just a ruined Killaspray! You really don't want these chemicals in your home.

As for your featherboard, I really can't answer that. It all depends on the extent of the infestation, and how much of the infested wood you are able to treat.

 

[Juliet M Rayner]

Thanks Penners. I am ready for battle. Juliet Rayner.

 

[charlie-ia]

I was going to spray with borax cos i recon it might reduce the numbers that get to fly about and cause mischief whilst we slowly dry the place out (we still have an intermittently flushing kitchen!), but have failed miserably buying more than 100g at a time in ireland.
so we're onto plan B- ignore it and hope it goes away,
and plan c - treat new wood with some "eco-friendly" preservative that contains peremethrin (a constituent of nit shampoo so im hoping its not as bad as somethings)

 

[Penners]

Well, that sounds great. Your kitchen may or may not be rid of woodworm, but at least you know it won't get nits.

 

[charlie-ia]

im in 2 minds about the wood preserver. is it a total waste of time and money?
our house is Much dryer than it was, but isnt quite water tight yet, and most likely wont be this year, as we're taking it slowly. do a bit and see what happens. Every time theres some decent rain we're in the wrong country! and we're chipping away the concrete by hand including a whole floor. there is a chance that the flagstones are still under it, but its attatched to a mud mortared wall. we've got about 1/2way round the base of the wall without any mishaps to wall or fingers. once we've chipped the edges away we should be able to be a bit rougher, see if the flags are there or not, and find out where the water comes from.

we've been resisting putting anything much new in for obvious reasons, but have liberally preservered some modernish wood that is riddled with live woodworm that we are going to strip out, but cant yet (eg the bathroom wall)

is this a good compromise? or is it completely and uttery pointless? its solvent free, doesnt smell of anything, but does contain insecticide and fungicide. does seem to penetrate nicely too. did some floorboards and it sucked right through to the other side round all the knot holes.

 

[Penners]

im in 2 minds about the wood preserver. is it a total waste of time and money?

That depends. If you have active woodworm, then a chemical that kils woodworm probably won't be a waste of time and money. But you may be able to get rid of the woodworm by drying out the wood, which would avoid the cost of the chemicals (and your time). The highly toxic chemicals in some woodworm treatments certainly have the capability to kill woodworm, but I wouldn't want them in my house.

 

[Goodboy]

There is no available evidence to indicate that sodium octabrorate will eradicate woodborers, although it may be a suitable preventative.

Unfortunately it is not usually possible to maintain wood in the average domestic environment at moisture contents sufficiently low to eradicate woodborers, wood being a hygroscopic material and its moisture content varying with the surrounding humidity.

Nevertheless it is important to determine if it is active - and can you live with it if it is? Note that many infestations have died out but frass falls from the emegence holes for some time due to minor vibrations in the house, so beware, itmay not be evidence of current activity.

All timber preservatives used in the domestic market are classified as 'Irritants' not 'Toxic' (Control of Pesticide Regulations 1985); this classification is similar to household products such as fabric conditioner - look for the St Andrew's Cross (Irritant) also found on numerous household products. All micro-emulsion insecticide concentrates once diluted do not have the requirement even for the 'Irritant' classification under the Legislation.

 

[Feltwell]

My house has got what I am 99% sure is furniture beetle in the cellar staircase:-

I'm quite sure it's active - the amount of frass has increased over this year, and in spring I had insects flying around in the cellar, which I took to be the beetle. Whilst I got as many as I can with one of those electric tennis racket insect killers (very statisfying if a touch sadistic!) I bet I haven't got rid of all of them, and with these being cellar steps the timber will never be as dry as timber in the main house and I have no real way of making it any dryer than it is currently - the steps don't touch the floor as it is, the bottom 2 steps now being made from breeze blocks, presumably because at some point in the past the bottom section rotted away.

Goodboy, I presume from what you say that the spraying of a diluted permethrin based solution is nowhere near as harmful to humans as the solvent based treatments. Do these sprays work well in eradicating the beetle?

 

[Goodboy]

Damp conditions do enhance attack and the amount of damage depends on the sapwood/heartwood ratio (although some minimal decay can make the infestation spread into the heartwood).

Furniture beetle lays eggs on surfaces, cracks and crevices but also down its emergence holes, often very quickly. they prefer to reamin, generally, in the area that is already infected.

The timbers in your cellar are likely to be surrounded by a high humidity and therefore the standing moisture content of the timber will be raised. I very much doubt that you will be able to drop the moisture content of the timbers to make life 'difficult' for furniture beetle (will need to meaintained lower than around 12% over long period)

If it is active and you want to rid of it then I would suggest that you liberally apply by brush a 'targetted treatment' - keep the treatment only to where the activity is. It also keeps the biocide application down to a minimum. Use a water based insecticide containing 0.2% permethrin when diluted with water (the problem with solvent based materials is the solvent - far more of a problem that the insecticide). Apply 3 - 4 liberal brush coats allowing time beween each coat - this will get you the required loading of around 1 litre per 3 m2. Of course wear gloves, etc, as stated on the container.

For information Permethrin is used to treat blankets for tropical use; it is used for the control of headlice, flea powders (1% permethrin) and it is used in creams to rub on skin to control scabies mites (5% permethrin! - no oprescription required). Your preservative should contain 0.2%.

 

[Goodboy]

PS. Sorry for typos - in a rush!

 

[Penners]

Sorry for typos

Good boy.

 

[Feltwell]

Thanks for the reply - very useful, I wasn't especially happy about sloshing lots of solvent around in the cellar, it's a small space and I can't really leave the door open for ventilation as I've young kids, I certainly don't want them breathing it in or falling down the cellar stairs!

Water-based dilution containing permethrin by brush it is.

 

[Flyfisher]

Permethrin might be widely used for head lice, scabies and fleas but it's still a potent chemical and should be used with care. I've read that cats are particularly sensitive, as well as aquatic life. Should be OK in a cellar, I guess, but don't let any cats get down there.

 

[Goodboy]

Hi,

Yes, it is a real problem if it gets into a waterway/pond but it is very quickly broken down in such an environment.

Dieldrin was lethal to cats but not so with permethrin; it is in flea powders which can be applied. As stated it can be applied direct to skin at 5%, some 25x greater than for a wood preservative - the clearance for medical use is different to that for non-agriculatural use. Also bear in mind that the surface residues dissappear relatively quickly so direct contact with a treated surface shold not be a problem after a short while. Safest way, of course, following treatment where contact may be made is to keep off.

If you are going to use a wood preservative - if deemed necessary in the first place - then always use a 'targeted treatment'

 

[worms]

I am 99% sure is furniture beetle

I got as many as I can with one of those electric tennis racket insect killers

Furniture beetles are really pretty small... and the holes in the "tennis racket" are relatively big!
Are you sure that you are chasing the right beasties?