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Anonymous
Guest
Is it ok to use underfloor heating with Blue Lias Flagstones? Has anyone encountered any problems using this stone?
With thanks,
With thanks,
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Anonymous
Guest
blue lias, being a limestone is a good insulator... so you might have problems with them being placed over the u.f.h pipes?....... unless they are quite thin (say 25mm)
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Anonymous
Guest
We have UFH under blue lias. Two rooms were done 20 years ago by previous owner. We were so impressed that we have extended system to other rooms. We did have listed building consent for this!
The floors we lifted had flags of various thicknesses most were 3 inch but some up to 5. They are very very heavy the largest stone in area was 5ft x 3ft.
The floor came up very easily to reveal old rats nests underneath!
Building control would not allow a breathing floor as we are in a Radon area. So floor was re-laid on screed, DPC, and celotex insulation.
The only operation problem is the response time. Takes around 4 hours to warm up from cold. Over the recent cold snap we have been lovely and warm, UFH gives a very even heat with no draughts. No ugly radiators either!
Thoroughly recommended.
Douglas
The floors we lifted had flags of various thicknesses most were 3 inch but some up to 5. They are very very heavy the largest stone in area was 5ft x 3ft.
The floor came up very easily to reveal old rats nests underneath!
Building control would not allow a breathing floor as we are in a Radon area. So floor was re-laid on screed, DPC, and celotex insulation.
The only operation problem is the response time. Takes around 4 hours to warm up from cold. Over the recent cold snap we have been lovely and warm, UFH gives a very even heat with no draughts. No ugly radiators either!
Thoroughly recommended.
Douglas
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Anonymous
Guest
Many many thanks for your responses. Very much appreciated. Andy
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Anonymous
Guest
It's an interesting issue... if LBC was applied for to demolish a wall for no good reason, I wonder what the response would be?
Is listing not any longer there to protect historic buildings? Is it simply about how things 'look'?
What sort of CO (and indeed 'EH expert') thinks this sort of destruction acceptable?
Is listing not any longer there to protect historic buildings? Is it simply about how things 'look'?
What sort of CO (and indeed 'EH expert') thinks this sort of destruction acceptable?
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Anonymous
Guest
Sorry Evelyn - I cant follow your response? Has it got attached to the wrong thread?
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Anonymous
Guest
Lifting flagstones to put in ufh - it's a strange thing to do in my view to a listed building. It's usually the case that as little disturbance as possible takes place to historic fabric.
It was a response to the response about lifting flags and getting LBC.
It was a response to the response about lifting flags and getting LBC.
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Anonymous
Guest
Ah - fair point. I think most councils dont really care too much about the interior of grade II houses. I live on a pretty much intact terrace of Georgian townhouses - the office across the street just got LB consent to remove what seemed to be the original trussed stud partitions... And this was NADFAS, an arts organisation. There is a word for this - facadism, isnt it?
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Anonymous
Guest
Oh, I know NADFAS! Well, facadism is a more advanced case - retaining only the facade of buildings, and junking the rest.
While buildings do adapt and change over time, I think that there can usually be little justification for digging up intact floors to install ufh. It's a complex issue.
While buildings do adapt and change over time, I think that there can usually be little justification for digging up intact floors to install ufh. It's a complex issue.
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Anonymous
Guest
True - though at least the floor will at least still look the same and could be reinstated if building regs would allow it - the historic materials are still present. An RSJ across a stripped-of-all-ornamentation regency drawing room isnt quite such a success.
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Anonymous
Guest
Sounds grim, I agree - if you tried to have the place listed it would be refused on the grounds it had been too altered and lost its 'historic interest' of course.
I agree the materials would still be there, but they would have lost the wear and undulations of age, and it's a worrying trend. Where does it end - demolish the walls so they can be rebuilt as cavities? And there are archaeology implications re digging up ancient flooring, and also recording issues.
It's very odd of NADFAS. You would think they would wish to set an example.
I agree the materials would still be there, but they would have lost the wear and undulations of age, and it's a worrying trend. Where does it end - demolish the walls so they can be rebuilt as cavities? And there are archaeology implications re digging up ancient flooring, and also recording issues.
It's very odd of NADFAS. You would think they would wish to set an example.
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Anonymous
Guest
Yes - all true, but I think that that is exactly where most LAs are going so far grade IIs are concerned.
I wondered whether NADFAS had moved out? Still says NADFAS House on the front. No doubt the reasoning will be that the space was of no historical interest and thus it didnt matter - which I am sure was true of each alteration taken individually.
I wondered whether NADFAS had moved out? Still says NADFAS House on the front. No doubt the reasoning will be that the space was of no historical interest and thus it didnt matter - which I am sure was true of each alteration taken individually.
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Anonymous
Guest
Evelyn, I would agree with you if the floor were historic. Ours was in a building which has had many lives. Before we restored the floor in question it had large bits of concrete and an open drain right across it from when animals had been kept in there.
We also removed a blocked up chimney to reveal a bread oven and range, also a large cast iron cauldron still hanging on a chain! A fantastic discovery last seen in the 1960's
More interesting was what we found 18" below the floor. You have guessed it - another floor. We left this alone for another generation to rediscover! It would have been nice to have dated this in some way. It consists of well-worn sandstones which were of various thicknesses - as much as 6". It is a shame that my experience of the conservation office is that they were very ignorant and unhelpful, or I would have asked their advice on dating etc.
We also removed a blocked up chimney to reveal a bread oven and range, also a large cast iron cauldron still hanging on a chain! A fantastic discovery last seen in the 1960's
More interesting was what we found 18" below the floor. You have guessed it - another floor. We left this alone for another generation to rediscover! It would have been nice to have dated this in some way. It consists of well-worn sandstones which were of various thicknesses - as much as 6". It is a shame that my experience of the conservation office is that they were very ignorant and unhelpful, or I would have asked their advice on dating etc.
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Anonymous
Guest
In that case. I forgive you!!
The whole underfloor heating thing is one which I think may well cause many difficulties for CO's who do want to do the right thing. So many owners don't actually appreciate about historic fabric etc., and once one person is given permission, others will want it regardless of how much their own floor should be preserved intact.
I agree the cooking pot etc is a fantastic discovery! We are busy uncovering an old chimney which was blocked off with a concrete raft when the range was removed and a solid fuel central heating boiler put in its place. Horrendous amounts of soot, and large deposits of black tar which is proving hard to shift; it smells terrible too! Anyone with any idea of how to remove this from sandstone I'd hugely appreciate.
We too have messy (we think of it as character...) flagstones, uncovered after being coated with various things including bits of concrete. Mostly it was sawdust mixed with some sort of resin, then a coating on top which is rather like lino. A mess. Old flags are indeed very thick, ours harbour mice I think! Hopefully when we get them pointed with lime that may deter them.
As for CO's - I'm not going there! Some are wonderful, some aren't, some are non-existent. The whole CO scenario, lack of them, their training is something of which HM Government is aware. Hopefully some good may come of this awareness, but who knows?
The whole underfloor heating thing is one which I think may well cause many difficulties for CO's who do want to do the right thing. So many owners don't actually appreciate about historic fabric etc., and once one person is given permission, others will want it regardless of how much their own floor should be preserved intact.
I agree the cooking pot etc is a fantastic discovery! We are busy uncovering an old chimney which was blocked off with a concrete raft when the range was removed and a solid fuel central heating boiler put in its place. Horrendous amounts of soot, and large deposits of black tar which is proving hard to shift; it smells terrible too! Anyone with any idea of how to remove this from sandstone I'd hugely appreciate.
We too have messy (we think of it as character...) flagstones, uncovered after being coated with various things including bits of concrete. Mostly it was sawdust mixed with some sort of resin, then a coating on top which is rather like lino. A mess. Old flags are indeed very thick, ours harbour mice I think! Hopefully when we get them pointed with lime that may deter them.
As for CO's - I'm not going there! Some are wonderful, some aren't, some are non-existent. The whole CO scenario, lack of them, their training is something of which HM Government is aware. Hopefully some good may come of this awareness, but who knows?
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Anonymous
Guest
I have made enquiries - is this somewhere around EC1?
If so, I gather there is not a great deal left of 'historic fabric' to worry about - much of it stripped out in the sixties, sadly.
If so, I gather there is not a great deal left of 'historic fabric' to worry about - much of it stripped out in the sixties, sadly.
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Anonymous
Guest
WC1, so probably the one they meant (though I think they should know their own postcode - Bloomsbury not Finsbury!).
Probably true re the original interior - but maybe not an excuse to change the original layout of the rooms. Much worse than lifting flags, I reckon. (Also, maybe not wise as their buildng has never been the most in-plumb thing - and these original stud walls are structural)
Probably true re the original interior - but maybe not an excuse to change the original layout of the rooms. Much worse than lifting flags, I reckon. (Also, maybe not wise as their buildng has never been the most in-plumb thing - and these original stud walls are structural)
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Anonymous
Guest
No, I made enquiries of a friend who lives in WC1 and who works with historic buildings. He seemed to think that there wasn't much left original, sadly.
You can't be too far from Lloyd Baker then - wonderful area! Behind the Farringdon Travelodge...
Hot news - I gather Lambeth wants to get rid of a terrace of 20 plus nice houses. Still, oop north Pathfinders wants to get rid of thousands upon thousands.
You can't be too far from Lloyd Baker then - wonderful area! Behind the Farringdon Travelodge...
Hot news - I gather Lambeth wants to get rid of a terrace of 20 plus nice houses. Still, oop north Pathfinders wants to get rid of thousands upon thousands.