Black or brass window fixings?

[JoceAndChris]

Just finishing a set of curtains for the attic bedroom; I dread to think how much heat we've been losing from those windows in the winter. I need to order a pole and fixings and while I'm at it some new stays and catches for the casement windows, which at the moment are a hotch potch of brass and black iron stuff.

It was pretty easy to decide on brass for the ground floor as that's what's there but this seems to be an opportunity to be a bit more cottagey. Am I right in thinking that the blacksmith-forged iron looking stuff is more informal?

Are there any no-nos with this? (there do seem to be with everything else!) Is the shepherd's crook thing considered naff? Are there any designs which are more 1800s, or were they all ubiquitous over many centuries?

I reckon it will cost me around £200-300 for all the fixings so I'm anxious to get it right and I haven't bought this stuff before, so thanks for any help.

 

[Feltwell]

I'd say it's down to personal preference, if all that was there originally has gone. If you want the black iron look then Genuine Forgery's poles would go very well, as detailed in other posts. I'm not on commission by the way!

 

[JoceAndChris]

I really like those, so could be another contented customer for them. Wonder if they do matching window furniture?- I'll give them a ring.

 

[middi]

The window style usually determines what shape and design you should use, cottage style windows of 18th-19th C. for example, would be better suited if wrought iron hand made catches and stays were to be used. Georgian/regency style windows would benefit from the brass approach.

Try :- http://www.kirkpatrick.co.uk

 

[Feltwell]

I really like those, so could be another contented customer for them. Wonder if they do matching window furniture?- I'll give them a ring.

Not as standard but he's a jobbing blacksmith, so will make pretty much anything that can be made, to whatever style you want. It's a one-man business in an old cow shed. You're quite the arty type, why not design your own, email him your drawings and see what he says? I wouldn't know where to start!

Alternatively there are lots of suppliers of black iron window furniture on t'web, the Kirkpatrick range that Middi mentions is very good (if not cheap).

 

[Jill]

Joce, I opted for black window fittings as I wanted the cottage look, the design I went for was the only one my window manufacturer supplied (apart from modern ones which were not in keeping) but it looks very similar to one of the Kirkpatrick ones. These lock into position with an allen key. I bought my door knobs and coat hooks from Kirkpatrick but had to do this through a local supplier as I found that Kirkpatrick didn't supply direct to the public. Lots of places on the internet that do stock Kirkpatrick goods though. Only you can decide whether you think they are naff or not.

 

[JoceAndChris]

No, I don't think they look naff at all - they look lovely Jill.

I think these things sometimes come in for a bit of scorn when they're used in a fake context and when the fittings are basically cheap and nasty- yours clearly aren't and it looks like a very nice job indeed.

That kirkpatrick website is lovely, thanks so much middi - lots of ideas for me there.

The room is low status, and the 4 adjoining casements make up one wide dormer window. Had another look at the window catches which I thought were wrought iron, however on closer inspection I think they're old brass that has become black with grime. I'm sure they'd clean up beautifully, and they look like they've been on there a long time, which is leading me to wonder if I should find matching brass ones.

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

Joce,

You need to be careful here, as it's not easy to find 'proper' ironmongery in either brass or iron. Much of what is available on the high street and online is of poor quality (and I mean quailty of design as well as quality of manufacture). Lots of the brassware is crudely cast rubbish from the Far East; I've had examples where parts don't fit together properly, or have been so poorly detailed that they've gone straight in the scrap box.

Black iron fittings are another minefield. Again, lots of horrible crude castings used instead of delicate forgings, and in many cases gloopy paint or thick powder-coating to eliminate any trace of surface texture or detailing. Despite other's recommendations I hate the Kirkpatrick range of products - I have found them to be clumsy, inaccurate, poorly engineered, overpriced and with the gloopy finish I mentioned. In every way dissapointing.

However, thanks to the internet it is now possible to track down suppliers of genuine ironwork which has been forged rather than cast, and which has a simple wax finish which allows the colour and texture of the metal to show through. Ironmongerydirect have a (limited) range, and the 'From the Anvil' range is also good. There are others, and it's really a question of looking hard at the photos, gleaning clues from the descriptions and requesting samples. If you're very lucky you might live within striking distance of one of the specialist 'period' house suppliers so that you can inspect before purchase.

I do think that in most cases brass is the way to go, but that's just personal preference. With brass fittings I usually strip off the laquer, file and fettle any offending detail, and re-polish. This allows the real dull bronzy finish to develop, like the older pieces in your pictures. Bright shiny brass looks all wrong to my eye, unless for some centrepiece such as a door knocker or bell pull which can be lovingly brassoed every week.

Truly God (or the devil, depending on your persuasion) is in the detail.

Proper ironwork: nice

 

[Schoolmarm]

The brass in the top picture looks modern to me but the bottom picture is a beautiful piece and looks "old".

I agree with Andrew.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Joce - the dark ones look to me as though they might be bronze, rather than dirty brass.

 

[JoceAndChris]

You're right! (surprise surprise) Many thanks.The window latch has come up dirty dark green after half an hour with Brasso. The stay is brass, it's polished up beautifully. I've never experienced bronze before, or even thought about it. I think this means I can't go for forged iron, plus I've noticed that the handle on the inside of the door is a lovely Georgian (?) brass one. I wonder why 3 out of 4 windows lost their original furniture.

As they're so pretty (thanks Schoolmarm) it's probably worth a long traipse round Hemswell and Horncastle to try to get matching ones, failing that, have them copied.

The whole brass/ black thing has to be carried into the stair rods and the light fittings I guess.

Andrew - thanks so much for your expert advice, I really do appreciate it. It seems that once you get educated on things you become more and more discerning.

Here's the dormer window photographed in 1984 during the rebuilding of the roof, it's the same window today. My guess is it's late Victorian and it went in at the same time as the other sash windows, (which can be dated 1890s because of newspaper shoved in the gaps - I still have some of that newspaper!)

 

[Jill]

Joce, The 'From the Anvil' collection that Andrew mentions can be seen at Billinghay Saw Mill located just to the North East of Sleaford. You should be able to find something at Hemswell if you go for brass. I chose to go for the curly black handles as they go well with some wrought iron panels that are in two of our oak doors. Its correct what Andrew says about quality of black fittings, some I saw were very poor quality put i'm happy with my Kirkpatrick door knobs.

 

[Penners]

The window style usually determines what shape and design you should use

I agree with Middi, although I'd add that the style of your interior is also an important factor.

If you're going for a "Tudor" style, then IMO black iron is appropriate. But from what I've seen of your interior photos, your style is much more "glamorous regency-esque*". So I think brass would be more suitable.





*Notice how I avoided the word "girlie"? :wink:

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks Penners, I appreciate your opinion! I'm having a hard time to do glam recency-esque with this room though, it's defiantly maid-ish.

BTW, I might be girly but I'm, completely innocent of painting the bit between the rafters pink, that's going too far even for me.

It's going to be my niece and nephew's room, or friends' children, when they come to stay. The perilous staircase and the interesting potential climbs onto the battlements, roof, or into the roof voids will toughen them up in the accident and injury department, I hope.

 

[Penners]

Ah, yes... that's much more rustic and cast irony than I imagined. In which case, I don't think Jill's monkey-tail ironwork would look inappropriate.

But if you could find some more of that lovely bronze....

 

[JoceAndChris]

Absolutely - that would be perfect.

 

[Ushy M]

Joce,
We were pleased with the window furniture we got from these people http://www.broughtons.com/products.php?cat_id=943 hopefully this link should take you to the bronze items.

Here's a locking window latch we got from them:

Sorry about the rubbish pic - it's difficult to photograph through the homemade secondary glazing - which will be staying up for some time yet... That reminds me - I must touch up the paintwork round this. Now, where's that "to do" list? :? Or, as it's Friday, shall I just pour an enormous G&T instead?

 

[biffvernon]

This is someone I've used occasionally (when I've found a rich enough client).

http://ryelund.co.uk/

 

[Schoolmarm]

There is some gorgeous stuff on there Biff.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Lovely websites, both - many thanks. I deliberated over posting this thread as it seems very trivial but I'm so glad I did now. The details really make the look, and it's all hard for me as it's the first old house in my life.

I'll have a look for antique bronze next time I'm in North Lincs (Hemswell have my 200 year old lock, they've spent a month on it so far and ring regularly to talk about the many challenges it poses! - dreading the bill), but failing that that pear drop stuff in Broughtons seems ideal and may enable me to keep the one that's there- thanks Ushy!