Black and white houses - what to use to paint them?

[Baron de Gynes]

Hello to one and all,

After lurking on here for a good while, enjoying the advice and banter from afar, I now find I need your collective assistance.

After moving into this house last September, a few works have been done but last year's hot summer and this year's harsh winter have taken their toll on the exterior of the house. It's a Grade II listed farmhouse constructed of a mix of stone and timber frame with brick infill panels. Some of the elevations have, in the past, been over-clad to add extra insulation. Whether that is a good this or not, I'm afraid the jury's still out, but the main framework, visible from inside, appears in good condition so the exterior cladding will have to remain for the moment.

The big job for this summer is to get the house painted and I'm not sure what to use. A forum search (back about 3 years) didn't flag anything obvious up, so I could do with your help. The house is currently a mix of white / off-white / cream with black-painted beams. I know that the beams shouldn't be painted, but the vast majority of buildings in the locality have the same treatment and, for ease, I'm planning to do the same.

The 'white' is flaking off in places, particularly on the brickwork which takes the brunt of the weathering; seems to have been done with a water-based finish.

I'm hoping to use oil-based paints because I believe they will last longer but I'm mindful not to use acrylic-based gunk. There haven't been any breatheability issues in the past, but I don't want to introduce them by using the wrong paint.

If possible, I'm hoping for a repaint in off-white with matt (just not gloss) black for the woodwork.

I also want to be rid of the horrible horrible horrible brown stain on the windows. It is old and flaking, so surely a good sand, primer coat and (preferably oil-based) white topcoats in white should suffice? The CO has no problems with the change and said consent would not be required. Woohoo! This is another query though - the windows are (I think) softwood and in fairly decent condition, although some require a bit of attention. I know that paint hides repairs well. Will the white look right, though? I don't like the dark windows, but am I doing the right thing? Opinions gratefully received.

Here's to the crux of my problem: (At last, you cry, he's got the point - I know, I'm an arch-waffler, sorry)
What paint should I be getting?
Linseed - seems expensive and, although breathable, most of my woodwork is covered up with what appears to be non-breathable paint....
Silicate paint - would have to go back to bare for that. No.
Water-based paint - isn't going to last as long as I want, although F&B (yes, I know, I know, but *I* like the stuff) has an impressive array of colours - I'm thinking Wimborne White or Pointing for the walls...
Oil-based - Where can I get it? So many paints are advertised as 'solvent-based' but with no mention of oil... This isn't the stuff, is it?

There are areas of the house that I can't reach so I'm reaching for the wallet and "Getting a Man In" - my favourite type of DIY. I've found a reputable painter, but I'd like to make it at least *look* like I know what I'm talking about with regard to the paint.

Please excuse my plaintive prattle.

 

[robgil]

i wouldnt paint the timber at all , in fact i would be more inclined to try and remove the black stuff. limewash for the white although you might6 have to remove whatever is there in the first place.
just my 2p's worth but i am becoming a bit of a purist so you might get away with doing it differently.
read this first though.

http://www.heritage-house.org/oakframing.html

this is also worth a read.

http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles.htm

 

[robgil]

sorry ,forgot to say welcome to the forum , thats a lovely house you have there.
and beware , some painters may do the job to suit themselves , if your timbers rot as a result it will be many years afterwards and they will be long gone.

 

[philpjuk100]

What a great house! thanks for the pic! phil.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Welcome to the forum, and are you really a Baron? 8)

On the windows - if you can't be bothered to get them back to bare wood or near it (and I don't blame you) then I'd use FnB exterior eggshell in either black or white. Some don't like it, but I do, I haven't had any problems with it. The new Eco eggshell for outside timber is water based, it's not quite as beatifully viscous and covering as their old oil paint, but if you apply 3 thin coats it looks good and weathers very well. You can still get their old oil based exterior eggshell from various online companies but expect to pay around £25 for a small can.

This thread discusses the use of linseed paint on windows, it's a real labour of love
http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11169&p=139370&hilit=linseed+paint#p139370

As for what to paint the white infill panels of your house with, that all depends what they're made of - do you know? If lime render then limewash, if cement then a modern exterior paint. I'd use F nB exterior masonry paint.

The brickwork would ideally be painted with a breathable paint but again this would necessitate stripping what's there.

Lovely house by the way.

 

[Baron de Gynes]

Am I a baron? Ha! I wish.

Thanks for all your kind comments about the house. It (can a house still be an 'it' when this one is clearly a living [and hopefully breathing... sort of] edifice) is in pretty good condition considering its age.

The panels have mainly been replaced with brick or possibly built that way (timber-framing was common in our county well into the C18th and some houses were filled with brick in that time, I believe) but part of the building (where the lime panels ought to be) has had cladding fitted which has cement render panels. Incorrect, I know, but in good condition all told and, considering it was done a few decades ago, there seem to be no ill-effects showing on the insides.

As for the painting - the effort of sanding, priming and undercoating isn't an effort, just an expense! Personally I think it would look better. So, oil-based gloss for those, if possible. I think I'm sold on white frames now. I've a feeling that, properly done, it will last longer and cover better because it must be said that our frames will require a little attention; filling joints and, in certain cases, fitting new sill-ends.

Keep the advice coming though - my chap can't start for a couple of weeks and he's happy for me to choose (even get) the paint for him.

 

[AMc]

As for the painting - the effort of sanding, priming and undercoating isn't an effort, just an expense! Personally I think it would look better. So, oil-based gloss for those, if possible. I think I'm sold on white frames now. I've a feeling that, properly done, it will last longer and cover better because it must be said that our frames will require a little attention; filling joints and, in certain cases, fitting new sill-ends.
.

As of the beginning of 2010 an EU directive on reduction of Volatile Organic Compounds (VOC) has meant that oil based paint has largely disappeared. Most of the major manufacturers formulated water based alternatives that are more environmentally friendly and decorator friendly. If these will be as durable as high quality oil based paints is yet to be proven but as there isn't much choice, there isn't much option. There is a reasonable case to assume that the manufacturers of the high quality oil paints will want to provide a product with an equivalent longevity particularly into the trade market.

Last year I painted a large proportion of my house with a Swedish oil paint from Beckers which was good to work with and looks to be very durable - certainly streaks ahead of 'oil gloss' I've used from the big DIY shed suppliers (Dulux, Crown et al) but this has been discontinued and replaced with a water based alternative.

A notable exception is Linseed Oil based paint which is free from VOCs. If you search onHolkham paints you'll find many advocates here but there are issues with cost and very slow drying time which may put you/your decorator off. IIRC it's a Scandinavian paint imported by Holkham. I had problems sourcing enough paint in a sensible time frame at Christmas which meant I wasn't able to use it at all but there are many here who swear by it.

 

[Baron de Gynes]

The last oil-based paint I used was F&B and while it was interior eggshell it covered beautifully and made painting a delight, not a chore. However I understand the problem of "painter's lung" and the perceived need to lower VOCs. But then again, I don't want to have to repaint the house again next year... I've seen some shocking results with water-based finishes that haven't weathered well at all. But then, this was before they withdrew the oils.

I like the idea painting the windows with linseed paint, especially as they'll be getting a good rub-down first. Don't think it will be feasible to use it on the rest of the house though because of the previous covering. :?

 

[Penners]

Nous vous accueillons, Monsieur le Baron.

Your choice of paints is really going to be dictated by what is already on the house - and whether you plan to remove it.

Let' start with the infill panels. Are they cement rendered and/or painted with modern exterior masonry paint? If so, then any breathability is probably already severely compromised. So unless you plan to remove these, then frankly it doesn't make too much difference what you paint them with.

The same principle applies to the exterior framing. If the black paint is a modern alkyd resin type which you plan not to remove, then - once again- you can't really improve the situation much by applying a breathable paint.

If you renew the rendering with lime, then of course limewash is the best choice for the building.

If you remove the modern paints from the framing and windows (or if it is in a bad enough condition to be largely self-removing) , then linseed paint is definitely a worthwhile investment - not just for its breathability but also for its longevity.

 

[Baron de Gynes]

Merci pour votre accueil, Monsieur Penners, en faveur du tous. Apologies for the awful French and lack of accents. BdG is simply a nom de plume.

The paint that was used the last time (judging by the can in the garage) was water-based masonry and a water-based matt paint for wood and metal. Sounds less than ideal, but as you say breathable+impermeable=impermeable.

My local trade counter has recommended water-based masonry paint for the panels / brickwork, the same for the beams (they've previously been painted, so probably not breathable, but it sounds a bit dodgy to me) and an oil-based finish on the windows.

I think I need a lie down.

 

[Penners]

Apologies for the awful French and lack of accents

Oh, I dunno - I thought your accent was rather good, although you might want to polish up the ou/u differentiation.

Water-based does not, of course, mean breathable. Nowadays there are water-based alkyd resin paints.

 

[AMc]

Personally I find 'breathable' a bit misleading as a term but it's common enough to not be qualified when posted. In the absence of other wording 'microporous' also indicates that moisture transfer is possible without blistering or flaking of the finish.