BEWARE! Is this a Con?

[thiambal]

When we sold our old property six months ago the solicitors of the purchasers got all upset about the bathroom extention on the back of the two up two down fishermans cottage. This had been built somewere between 1956 - 1964 but they insisted on have copies of planning permision (which it would not have needed) and building regs. THe council did not have records and did not want to know and there was nothing we could do.

Result - we had to pay £125 for a indeminty insurance incase enforcement action was ever taken against the 40 year old extension. This in the end was arranged by our solicitor as the purchaser's chap wanted to charge us £330 for the same cover.

I had let the pain of parting withy £125 drop into distant memory - but now my parents are selling there house and the same question has come up for a 5'x6' utility room - half brick, half UPVC - where has been there for 20 years plus. They want planning permission and building regs - which of course are not avalaible. Result - they need to by an indeminty policy!

Has anyone else experienced this - I stronly suspec t that this is a new money making con to sell costly but meaningless and futuile insurance. Of course when your house sale is about to fall through you do not have the time or willpower to challenge it!

 

[middi]

It seems to me that there is an increasing trend for people to cover their A***S especially if it means generating more money for some.

Whilst I can fully accept solicitors etc.. to point the buyers in the right direction and keep a record and so on, it is up to the buyers to instruct the solicitors as to how to proceed.

I would be very tempted to tell the buyers ,if they are serious enough, to get their own policy and indemnify themselves against the remote possibility of future problems.

It sounds a bit odd to me if an addition to a property has been there 20 or 40 years and nobody has complained it is likely that it may have to be removed.


If the buyers want the house bad enough they will buy it at an additional cost of £ 150 or £ 300 if they are too worried.

 

[thiambal]

The stupid thing is - in both cases - the structure would not have been subject to planning permission. In any case both structures were well outside the time limits on enforcement for planning permission and building regs.

The local council told me in no uncertain terms that they were not the slightest bit interested - they would not even come an inspect the structure afresh as it was so old. Did make me wonder what the insurance was indemnifying anyone against! :?

I would encourage everyone to keep all record relating to their houses. But in both these cases the building work pre-dated our ownership of the house.

I would imagine that many people on this site have properties that have had bits added many years ago prior to their ownership. This may be something to look out for when selling!

 

[biffvernon]

It's just a scam. The answer is to say you're not selling to them. Call their bluff.

 

[thiambal]

I agree Biff, I think it is a Scam. The worrying thing is it has come up in the space of a few months in different parts of the country.

Funnily enough - the solicitors are able to act as agents for the insurance and issue it on the spot - and I imagine, pocket a healthy amount of commission.

Far be it from me to suggest that solicitors / conveyencers are anything but honest :wink: but perhaps this needs investigating.

 

[skier-hughes]

Try asking your insurers for a quote for the same policy.
Or get the council to put it in writing that they are not interested, maybe £20 for a letter will be cheaper than £150 for insurance.
We did have this problem when selling our house, but eventually got round it as the room in question was a semi converted garage, and as such was not a living space, and we were not selling the house with it as living space.

Graham

 

[Mark]

tell them to pull the other one.

A council cannot take enforcement action against something if it is a structure and has been erected for at least 4 years or if it is a change of use and has been used for 10 years. (thats under planning law - not sure if things are different for listed buildings)

you could try approaching the local council for a lawful development certificate, which clarifies that something is lawful and immune from enforcement action.

ask why the solicitor doesnt know this

 

[middi]

Yes, ask him Thiambal.

If as Mark says its correct, tell him you have been ill advised at best, conned at worst and ask for you money back.

It woul be interesting to hear what his reply would be.

 

[NT]

I'd write to the buyer saying 'if you wish to purchase a worthless policy youre free to. However it has nothing to do with me.'

The question of why remains... I wonder if the solicitor is trying to cover his ass in case the extension should turn out to be modern being passed off as old, or should turn out to be deemed a dangerous structure, and the council can take action re that regardless of age. However as a real world risk its as near to zero as they get.


NT

 

[thiambal]

Hi guys,

I agree with all you have said and wish I had persued it further. I don't think I was clear in my post - this happened to me six months ago and to my parents just recently - but bu**er all we can do about it now.

I did attempt to fight it at the time but there had already been delays and our vendor was threatening to pull out etc. etc. so £125 seemed a small price to pay at the time to make it all go through.

I just thought I would post it as a warning for others to be aware of when they come to sell!

 

[middi]

It is appreciated how easily someone could fall prey to this sort of "legal" scam when faced with little time and possibility of loss of a buyer.

I suppose it is a similar scenario when anybody goes to a dentist with a bad tooth ache, if the advise is that it has to be removed 99.9% of the patients will not argue, it is of little comfort to find out 6 months on that it could have been saved.

Never mind.

 

[Penners]

It's just a scam. The answer is to say you're not selling to them. Call their bluff.

I agree - perhaps "scam" is slightly too strong a word, but it's definitely solicitors justifying their fees and armour-plating their backsides.

However, bargaining over the price of a property is always the same. Whether people want a discount for rising damp, 200 yards of fencing painted before they sign the contract, an insurance policy as described here... it all comes down to the same thing: how much do they want the property, and how much are you prepared to give away to secure the sale?

My own view is that if they want the house enough to have made you an offer, they're very unlikely to walk away over a trifling £125. I would - as Biff says - call their bluff and tell them to buy the policy themselves.

 

[Johneds]

Nothing new about these policies, they've been around for ages. Usually a complete waste of time and money but most people don't have the appetite to argue it out in the middle of an allready tetchy transaction.

 

[erusfarley]

We had the same problem when selling our house, the only difference was that we had the old extension knocked down and rebuilt to the same dimensions but better spec, we had a semi retired master builder who knew all the regs so we knew it was all ok.
the only thing in our defence was that prior to the rebuild i had contacted local council who said that if it was being rebuilt before a certain date they didnt want to know.

when we came to sell and the buyers solicitor was being neuro, they demanded we pay £144 for a "policy" to cover against any demands made against it by the council.
so.... i spoke to a very helpful person in the planning dept who agreed that as the extn was done before the date specified before, they were in fact not interested, she then faxed me a letter stating this and we called the buyers bluff. we said we would not pay for a policy which was not required as all it would protect against was council questions/ queries for which we had the answers in writing.
as the buyers had already paid out for surveys etc and nothing had come up he was sensibly advised to make a decision by his solicitor.
we moved out four days later!!!


just goes to show that there are some helpful council memebrs out there and some sensible solicitors.
at the end of the day it all depends on whether you are prepared to lose the buyer by taking a chance. if you like peace of mind and the guarantee of the sale then pay for the policy, if you are happy to try and call the bluff then try it, worse case scenario is you can offer a 11th hour compromise of going dutch or paying in full.