Best screws for original pine boards and more?

[Pogonation]

Hi everyone,

I am currently in the middle of lifting all my floorboards (dodgy job in the past by builders meaning they knocked the supporting walls for joists down in areas and never rebuilt them) and insulating under the floor and wanted to know the best screws to use to screw them back down? I will not be laying a new floor over the top. I have seen the spax flooring screws mentioned here but they only seem to come on zinc colour. Any alternatives out there?



Thanks

 

[Cubist]

Are the boards tongue and groove and are these in good condition? If so, you could use the smaller diameter/length spax screws on a 'hidden' basis by driving them through the tongue at 45degrees. Be aware though that this approach can split the tongue from the board is spaced too close together and particularly if the boards are very dry and brittle.

If that approach will not work for you then you could drive the heads below the surface of the boards and fill the cavity with a coloured wax that matches the boards.

 

[Pogonation]

The boards were tongue and groove haha. They’re 150 years old and the only way to get them up without destroying them was to cut all the tongues off with a multi tool. So the only option is to screw them in from above.

That wax method is interesting though. Is this generally what people do? I feel like a dark brown/black colour would be good because the eye ignores it thinking it’s knots/nails etc.

 

[Cubist]

Some people use a filler but that can make it nigh on impossible to get the screws back out. Wax can at least be picked out after it hardens.

 

[Pogonation]

And how about the screws? I can only seem to find screws for Tongues. Any decent options for screwing in from the surface and finishing with the head a few mm below the surface?

 

[Feltwell]

Try "tongue tite" screws - they have a tiny head that disappears easily below the surface, you don't have to use them through the tongues.

https://www.screwfix.com/search?search=tongue+tite

The other point is, why not use flooring brads, for an authentic look?

 

[Pogonation]

They look good! I’m wondering if the silver might draw too much attention to them though? (I need 60mm+)

I did think about the flooring brads but just think screws will give a more solid floor. Would prefer to have screws but keep them looking traditional (ie not noticeable) so wondered about black decking screws?

 

[Feltwell]

The tongue tite is a suggestion as I've found the head is so slim you can put it a few mm beneath the surface of the timber, and the timber *almost* closes back over the hole - but - and it's a major but - I've only used them for small local repairs on things like split boards, never to hold a whole board down, let alone a whole floor. My concern would be that the lack of head will pull further into the board if the board tries to warp. You could try putting them in at an angle maybe - that was how they were designed to be used, at an angle through the tongue of T&G boards. You could I suppose drive them at angle through where the tongue used to be, on the edge of the board. Experimentation required!

They are *very* useful screws though, I'd recommend anyone to have a box in the shed, I've used them quite a few times for odd repairs where I want something as unobtrusive as a lost head nail but with the holding power and reversibility of a screw. Toby Newell put me onto them.

I did think about the flooring brads but just think screws will give a more solid floor. Would prefer to have screws but keep them looking traditional (ie not noticeable) so wondered about black decking screws?

You'll see the screw heads whatever, I think they'll look wrong, personally. Yes, from a pure fixing point of view I much prefer modern screws to nails - but - forgive me for stating the obvious, but brads have been very successfully holding millions of floors down for many many years now!

The ones here are an absolute sod to get out. I'd use brads again, personally. Go for self-coloured not galvanised, so the head will tone down with time. There are brads and there are brads (or cut clasp nails to give them their proper name), I've had some off Ebay that were rubbish, these look good.

https://www.heritage-store.co.uk/traditional-nails/1030-brad-cut-floor-board-nails.html

 

[RBailey]

I like the traditional cut nails, they don't split the boards and grip well. Their performance has really surprised me.
You can see them in the end but it is a traditional look and I think the uniform small rectangular heads / divots in the board helps the overall look.
(I find screws draw the eye more, particularly odd extra / anti-squeak screws.)

However, I completely understand why you may want to use screws.

 

[Cubist]

I have to admit that I too prefer a more traditional approach and would use a cut nail for the job. That said though, I take a rather strategic approach insofar that I will always use screws in any board(s) I, or someone else, may need to lift at any time in the future to access power distribution cables or pipe-work.

 

[Pogonation]

Thanks for all the replies! You are bringing me around to using nails again haha. The nails from that heritage shop look spot on.

My main concern now is.. I cut off the old Brad nails so they are still in the boards so either I have to punch these out and use the original holes (in which case they might be a bit loose as they will go into the same holes in the joists, or I drive in new nails next to the existing ones however this will mean 4 nails where there used to be 2. Any suggestions?

 

[Cubist]

Oh, bu$%$%, that puts a different complexion on it for me. Punching the remains of the old nails out runs a few risks of damaging the joists or anything below them. Worst case scenario is that you split the joist or the punch gets well and truly stuck and you damage the joist trying to lever it out, or you damage something delicate below. Also, the new nails will then always tend to be loose if you try to re-use the existing nailing pattern or, worse still, be diverted by the remnants of an old nail that was overlooked. If you decide to go down the nailing route I would advise that you try to avoid the old nailing pattern as far as possible. Nails get a better grip on the board and joist when they drive a new hole for themselves.

If you decide to go ahead with nails and the same nailing pattern try to get nails with a slightly larger head profile - but be cautious as that can risk splitting the board.

 

[Pogonation]

Sorry I should clarify. The joists are generally free of nails (the odd remenant where they snapped). The boards were lifted and either the nails pulled through (and then the nail pulled out the joist) or they stayed in the board… then I cut off the nail below (rather than trying to hammer them out which was causing damage to the boards and lifting splinters).

The heads on the Original 75mm brads are huge so I don’t think j will be able to get anything bigger. I could just hammer in new brads through new pilot holes 1cm to the side of the existing brads but that will mean each board will have 4 nail heads along each joist. Not sure if this would be ugly or just look fine/intended. What do you think?

 

[Pogonation]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/65mm-Bright-Flooring-Steel-Nails/dp/B08CVQ5L6H/ref=asc_df_B08CVQ5L6H/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=499292497816&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16461686587326912332&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006948&hvtargid=pla-1212936983958&psc=1

I bought 10kg of these. The heritage place didn’t have the right size in stock and reckoned it would be next year

 

[Cubist]

I would suggest then that you see if the new nails will achieve a tight fit in each hole in each board. If most are good and snug then, when laying the boards, try to align the nail entry points with undamaged areas of the joist below to get the best possible purchase. If a few seem/feel to still be poorly connected you may then like to consider a few strategically placed counter-sunk screws with a wax capping.

 

[Pogonation]

Do you mean using the original nail holes or making new ones adjacent to the old ones (most of which are filled with a piece of nail)?

 

[Cubist]

Ah, now I understand. I had meant that you use the original holes. It would be an idea, if you can see the cut end of the nail on the reverse side of the boards to drive them out back through the top of the board. That will help to reduce/eliminate any further expansion of the holes without creating much in the way of additional damage.

 

[Pogonation]

Here’s an image of the nails for anyone interested. Nice old appearance to them. Don’t know how strong they are yet but will report back. They’re very good value at £70 per 10kg