Bedroom false ceiling and wall insulation

[markwm]

The master bedroom is the only room in our house left to refurbish. The current L&P ceiling in good condition but it's terribly uneven and massively out of level. Taking it down is not an option due to the mess it will cause.

As the ceiling in the bedroom is high my plan was to lower it by simply creating a timber framework a 10 or so inches below the original ceiling.

Am I correct in thinking the new false ceiling void should be insulated with loft insulation? I always assumed you insulate the part closed to the living space, if I insulate the real ceiling and not the false ceiling, all the warm air would get trapped in the false ceiling void, correct?

I'm also dry lining 2 external walls in this bedroom with timber and insulating with rockwool. Should I use a vapour barrier prior to plaster boarding on both the walls AND ceiling? I'm always a bit wary regarding using polythene in regards to possible condensation issues. The walls are 2 bricks thick and lime plastered. Currently covered in thick wallpaper and paint. Planning to strip the wallpaper only prior to dry lining.

 

[AMc]

Am I correct in thinking the new false ceiling void should be insulated with loft insulation? I always assumed you insulate the part closed to the living space, if I insulate the real ceiling and not the false ceiling, all the warm air would get trapped in the false ceiling void, correct?

Sounds sensible to me

I'm also dry lining 2 external walls in this bedroom with timber and insulating with rockwool. Should I use a vapour barrier prior to plaster boarding on both the walls AND ceiling? I'm always a bit wary regarding using polythene in regards to possible condensation issues. The walls are 2 bricks thick and lime plastered. Currently covered in thick wallpaper and paint. Planning to strip the wallpaper only prior to dry lining.

Depends - there are plenty of people who would advocate a completely vapour permeable solution (sheeps wool and clayboard/lime plaster on lath) in both ceiling and walls. If you have the space I would probably go that way as you are unlikely to experience any problems.

Space constraints and a number of other factors here meant when we dry lined we used foam insulation which isn't breathable/vapour permeable at all. We battened the walls at 400mm centres to provide a true vertical surface. 25mm isotherm (similar to celotex and kingspan) went in between the battens then 11mm plasterboard bonded on to 50mm of isotherm went across fixed to the battens. This provides an unbroken layer of insulation around the room and once skimmed you get very few air leaks. The foil backed insulation provides some vapour barrier we didn't put a dedicated one in.

 

[markwm]

Thanks for your reply. Any other thoughts on this?

 

[Flyfisher]

Is there any particular reason why you wish to lower the ceiling by 10 inches or so?

An alternative might be to just use battens fixed directly to the existing ceiling (into the beams of course) to support the new ceiling. Providing the existing ceiling is already well insulated in the attic, I don't see why you'd need to insulate the very small gap between the new ceiling and the original one. You might lose a little heat into the small gap but if the original ceiling is well insulated, heat wouldn't be lost from the gap and would quickly equalise with the room temperature and no further heat would be lost thereafter.

I suppose this might not work if the original ceiling is particularly 'wonky' but bear in mind that such things can form a large part of the character of older houses.

 

[markwm]

You're correct in that the original ceiling is very wonky, 3 inches out from one side to the other. It just looks wrong especially as one wall is full of wardrobes which highlight the out of levelness of it.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Any chance of any pics?

Sorry I can't advise technically, but the high proportions of the room, and the old wonky ceiling, sound like two lovely features to me. Our furniture also shows up huge unevenness in ceilings and wall- initially something of a shock coming from a modern house but now we love it.

I'm just slightly concerned that you are making work for yourself that you may come to regret- but it's your house!

 

[markwm]

Why would I regret?

I'm just trying to create a nice even ceiling. I have all the timber recycled from another job. I'll have all the framework done in an afternoon.

We've had old ceiling 'overboarded' before and it looks terrible, like the ocean wave. Over boarding isn't even an option in this case thought. Imagine a wall full of wardrobes, at one end the gap between the top of the wardrobe and ceiling is 5 inches, at the other end, 8 inches.

There's no 'character' features in the house to justify the wonky ceiling 'fitting in' if you know what I mean.

Ceiling is being lowered, just haven't decided whether to put loft insulation in the void and use vapour barriers on the ceiling/wall or not.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Well, I haven't seen it, and you've made your decision.

But speaking for myself, and maybe others seeking period features when house-hunting, I'd be a bit put off buying a property evened out in that way. I'd probably want to reverse what you're doing. I really don't see any problem with a wardrobe having uneven space above it - except that a whole wall of wardrobe is far from ideal in terms of fitting the proportions of the room, no matter what's going on above.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I like wonky ceilings - it's part of the character of old places. I am determined that there are no right-angles in this place - as so far my lime plastering and carpentry skills are supporting me admirably in this endeavour.

Have you thought of successively reducing the height of your wardrobes to retain the illusion of parallel lines?

 

[JoceAndChris]

Even better, de-clutter your life and have just one wardrobe! Your ceiling will look fabulous, and you'll feel your room is suddenly huge.

(We have NONE in the bedroom, I've taken 2/3 of my things to charity - what a blessed relief it is)