Hello from a new member,we have just got the keys to our 200 year old cottage,the previous owner told me that he plaster boarded over the beams in the lounge about thirty years ago.When I expose them again I will want to lime wash them do I have to strip them to bare timber to do this,and how do I plaste boared in between to give some sound insulatin for the bedroom above.thanks...Allan
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Lime
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Congratulations on your old purchase. 
Two things first.
1. If your property is listed you probably need to get consent to do this.
2. In the past asbestos was sometimes used between the joists and may be still in place.
It is probable that the beams will have been plasterboarded-in just as they were 30 years ago and that may be anything!
You need to see what you have before making any decisions.
They could be limewashed already or covered in bitumen paint!
How much insulation you put in place depends on the depth of the joists/beams and how much of the beams you wish to reveal.
If plasterboard is used as a finish between the beams the fitting can be tricky as most beams are not straight or parallel with one another.
Fibreboard makes a good alternative (the soft fibre variety) and is slightly more flexible so it is easier to cut and fit. The thick fibreboard acts as insulation as well.
however you need to find out what you have before anything else.
Try lifting a floorboard above the room to take a look if that is possible.
Two things first.
1. If your property is listed you probably need to get consent to do this.
2. In the past asbestos was sometimes used between the joists and may be still in place.
It is probable that the beams will have been plasterboarded-in just as they were 30 years ago and that may be anything!
You need to see what you have before making any decisions.
They could be limewashed already or covered in bitumen paint!
How much insulation you put in place depends on the depth of the joists/beams and how much of the beams you wish to reveal.
If plasterboard is used as a finish between the beams the fitting can be tricky as most beams are not straight or parallel with one another.
Fibreboard makes a good alternative (the soft fibre variety) and is slightly more flexible so it is easier to cut and fit. The thick fibreboard acts as insulation as well.
however you need to find out what you have before anything else.
Try lifting a floorboard above the room to take a look if that is possible.
charlie-ia
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Lime said:
How do you spot this?
Penners
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Bearing in mind Lime's warnings, if you want to carry out genuine limewashing, then you will have to strip off any paint that you may find on the beams.
However, assuming they have been previously painted, then the easier alternative is simply to paint them matt white. This gives a similar effect to limewashing.
As regards plasterboarding between the beams, plus insulation, the normal method is to counterbatten both sides of each beam (ie: nail on a batten a couple of inches* up the side of the beam), then scribe in and cut your plasterboard for fixing to the battens. Stuff the void between the beams (that will be covered by the plasterboard) with your chosen insulation material, then fit the plasterboard.
If the beams are longer than a sheet of plasterboard, be sure to fit noggins across the gap between the counterbattens, to support the plasterboard joint.
*A couple of inches is code for "however much of the beam you want to remain visible"!
However, assuming they have been previously painted, then the easier alternative is simply to paint them matt white. This gives a similar effect to limewashing.
As regards plasterboarding between the beams, plus insulation, the normal method is to counterbatten both sides of each beam (ie: nail on a batten a couple of inches* up the side of the beam), then scribe in and cut your plasterboard for fixing to the battens. Stuff the void between the beams (that will be covered by the plasterboard) with your chosen insulation material, then fit the plasterboard.
If the beams are longer than a sheet of plasterboard, be sure to fit noggins across the gap between the counterbattens, to support the plasterboard joint.
*A couple of inches is code for "however much of the beam you want to remain visible"!
chuckey
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Another vote for Penners!. I would add, that as the beams might be of unequal depth and /or warped, I would mark out on the wall a reference line, as in the plaster board is going to be XX inches above this line. I just marked 3 1//2" up the joists from their bottoms and blasted the plaster board in and as some joists are definately warped the line of the new plaster can be seen not to be straight.
Frank
Frank
Lime
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Usually it will be in the form of a rigid white board with fibrous edges.charlie-ia said:
It was commonly used upto the late 70s/early 80s both for fire resistance (either side of the floorboards) and/or the ceiling finish itself.
Many building inspectors insisted on it being used in flats where whole walls, doors and ceilings of stair wells (incuding the treads, risers and banister) were covered with it to give some fire protection. :shock:
It is hard but brittle.
When knocked it makes a sound like hitting a slate roof tile.
(However some soft asbestos sheet was made at that time which was more like stiff thick blotting paper.)
On close inspection the fibres can be seen.
Sometimes one side will have raised dimples or undulations upon it.
Holes made through it by nails usually have created a jagged broken hole.
Some large sheets I have found directly over floorboards have been obviously asbestos.
They had the word ASBESTOS printed on them in lettering about four feet long.
Penners
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That's called "character", Frank!chuckey said:
Actually, one of those new-fangled Star Trek phaser beam gizmos is great for ensuring that you have a straight, horizontal reference line. They're quite cheap these days.
Penners
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Nah - too long-winded! Assuming you're going to plaster over it, the plasterboard doesn't have to be a truly perfect fit.
I have a piece of string with a knot in it every 12 inches. I stretch this taughtly up the line of the plasterboard, in the middle of the gap between the two beams. I then measure to left and right of the string at every knot.
Then draw a line down your plasterboard sufficiently far in from the edge to accommodate the widest dimension, and make a mark on it every 12 inches (I keep a marked-up straightedge for this purpose). Then transfer your measurements left and right of that line. Join up the dots and voila!
You'll also find it much easier to put up the plasterboard single-handed if you make yourself two or three "dead men". A DM is a bit of batten, a little longer than the height of your plasterboard, with a crosspiece about 18 inches long screwed on at one end. You put the crosspiece on the underside of your located plasterboard and then lightly spring the vertical so it holds in place.
You can buy professional telescopic dead men, but they're only worth the investment if you've got a great deal of this work to do.
I have a piece of string with a knot in it every 12 inches. I stretch this taughtly up the line of the plasterboard, in the middle of the gap between the two beams. I then measure to left and right of the string at every knot.
Then draw a line down your plasterboard sufficiently far in from the edge to accommodate the widest dimension, and make a mark on it every 12 inches (I keep a marked-up straightedge for this purpose). Then transfer your measurements left and right of that line. Join up the dots and voila!
You'll also find it much easier to put up the plasterboard single-handed if you make yourself two or three "dead men". A DM is a bit of batten, a little longer than the height of your plasterboard, with a crosspiece about 18 inches long screwed on at one end. You put the crosspiece on the underside of your located plasterboard and then lightly spring the vertical so it holds in place.
You can buy professional telescopic dead men, but they're only worth the investment if you've got a great deal of this work to do.
chuckey
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My deadmen cost me £2.5 each, they are basicaly washing line props bought from a market stall. They extend to about 9'. The hook is replaced as you say with a piece of wood. the bases I am proud of, imagine a pair of pieces of 18mm chipboard that interlock into each other at their centre, givinng a cross of 20" across and 9" high. At the centre, stand your pole in a corner, and trap it by driving in 4 screws in each side. The pole is now lateraly fixed. To transport, pull out pole, slide the bits of chipboard apart, voila!!
( Don't use them for a whole sheet though! :roll: )
Frank
( Don't use them for a whole sheet though! :roll: )
Frank
andrew gayton
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or
take up floor boards and lay p.board over top of joists then reinstate floorboards. skim over p.board and paint. saves time and effort and presents more of the joist. p.board between joist and floor board cuts out lots of noise.
take up floor boards and lay p.board over top of joists then reinstate floorboards. skim over p.board and paint. saves time and effort and presents more of the joist. p.board between joist and floor board cuts out lots of noise.
andrew gayton
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also cuts down on shrinkage/movement cracking
Nemesis
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Doesn't it also mean the floor level is then raised? With other problems to consider such as skirting boards...
And I like cheery way you say lift the boards - in my experience bluddy difficult without damage!
And I like cheery way you say lift the boards - in my experience bluddy difficult without damage!
andrew gayton
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yep; floor level is raised by 12.5mm...... floorboards should come up easily and without breaking them unless they are so wormy that they need to be replaced anyway. skirting - if your house is posh enough to have it - is usually nailed at massive centres to timber grounds so that level of raise is easy to deal with as is a trimming of door bottom..... sounds like a lot of work but easier and more satisfactory way of doing the job from my experience. similar method to doing a roof rather than batten/p.boarding.....................
Nemesis
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Right - next time we need to lift a board we'll send for you!
I can see all manner of probs raising floor levels here - threshes (in Northumberland there are often steps up into bedrooms) and hearthstones etc.
I think our house once wasn't posh enough to have skirtings, but they had been put in when we bought. We have kept them as they make life easier. Interesting when taken off to find all manner of fragments of historic wallpaper behind.
Doors aren't a problem as in the past these have had wood removed from the bottom, makes for great ventilation!
Yes I can see though in some cases it's an answer. Our house had once exposed joists in the room which was the kitchen and also the scullery, but a ceiling had been put up many decades ago when the kitchen (farmhouse type) was turned into another living room.
It's a problem we will have to tackle if and when we ever get our barn sorted into a kitchen however, with the hayloft above and exposed joists.
I can see all manner of probs raising floor levels here - threshes (in Northumberland there are often steps up into bedrooms) and hearthstones etc.
I think our house once wasn't posh enough to have skirtings, but they had been put in when we bought. We have kept them as they make life easier. Interesting when taken off to find all manner of fragments of historic wallpaper behind.
Doors aren't a problem as in the past these have had wood removed from the bottom, makes for great ventilation!
Yes I can see though in some cases it's an answer. Our house had once exposed joists in the room which was the kitchen and also the scullery, but a ceiling had been put up many decades ago when the kitchen (farmhouse type) was turned into another living room.
It's a problem we will have to tackle if and when we ever get our barn sorted into a kitchen however, with the hayloft above and exposed joists.
Penners
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Oops - you've seen our floors, then?andrew gayton said:
Nemesis
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No, pretty orrible really...
Penners
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Also not much help with acoustic insulation, I should imagine.
andrew gayton
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due to the building regs (sound insulation etc) there is a cushioned tape you can buy to lay on top of the joisting before laying floorboards.... works a treat with regard to transmission of sound
pen - can i have your floorboards for kindling please?
pen - can i have your floorboards for kindling please?