Beams and ammonia

[Sonyaclegg]

We have three 400 year old beams and one 4 year old beam which sticks out like a sore thumb. I read somewhere that is a solution of ammonia is applied and left, oak will darken. I'm hoping to blend the new beam in with the old. Any ideas?

It's the beam on the left. The contrast is much greater than shown on the photo.

 

[Sonyaclegg]

Dining room beams...well would be if the board attachment quota had not been reached. What on earth does that mean?

 

[Keithj]

It means you have to host the picture somewhere else and link to it, because the file space on here is full up.

Photobucket, Flickr, or email it to me and I'll host it for you.

 

[worms]

You can darken oak by fuming it with ammonia but as far as I am aware, this is only done for individual pieces of wood for cabinet-making. Not sure how you would achieve this for a whole beam in-situ. At least, not in a room that you might want to be able to breathe in!

I am sure that someone with more knowledge will come up with an alternative method for you to achieve the look you want!

EDIT: I guess you could rig up a suspended polythene tent around the beam and fume it in-situ, but it would be a bit of a faff and ammonia is not nice stuff to work with, so I wouldn't be volunteering to pour it into the polythene above my head!

 

[skier-hughes]

We live with ours, some are 500 years old some 5 years. It gives us something to talk about as people who aren't really interested in period property ask about them

 

[LadyArowana]

It means you have to host the picture somewhere else and link to it, because the file space on here is full up.

Photobucket, Flickr, or email it to me and I'll host it for you.

If you have FB account you can put it on there, set the privacy on the picture to "only me" and then paste the link here, it works, that's where my McGanesh came from.

 

[88v8]

'Altering Wood: Ammonia
Oak species also react with ammonia, turning a dark brown color. Mission furniture was originally colored with a process known as ammonia fuming. The odd thing about fuming is that the color change is not very evident on dry, unfinished wood. The full color change becomes apparent only after you apply a clear finish like boiled linseed oil or varnish.

Traditional fuming of oak must be done in specially constructed plastic tents with concentrated ammonia (26%). This is EXTREMELY nasty stuff to handle. Consider something else.

The something else is household ammonia. You can achieve some darkening of oak by using soap-less household ammonia, straight from the bottle. Do this ONLY in a really well ventilated area with a fan blowing across the work to push the ammonia fumes away from you and outside. Ammonia fumes are horrible. Be careful. Simply apply the ammonia with a rag or brush, let it stand until it has evaporated, then wash the surface with very dilute vinegar. This neutralizes the ammonium hydroxide left behind from the ammonia solution. Wash off with plain water and let dry. This is messier than fuming but gives some of the color. If you want to try fuming, Taunton Press has published information on finishing practices, and one of them is about fuming.'

Now, options...

'Altering Wood: Tannins
Tannins are extractives that you can actively darken several ways. You can also add tannins to wood to increase the total color change effect.

Adding tannins is simple. Get regular orange pekoe (Lipton's) or other dark tea. Steep about 10 tea bags in 1 qt hot water. Put the bags into boiling water, then turn off the heat and let it sit for about 2-3 hours. Remove the bags, being sure to squeeze out liquid from each bag. Apply an even coat of the tea-saturated water to any species of wood. Wipe completely dry, then allow the wood to dry overnight.

Tea is high in tannins, plus it also adds a small amount color. This tannin enhanced wood reacts vigorously with iron acetate as described below. You can use tea on woods that contain no tannins, and treat the surface just like it was oak to start with. Adding a lot of dark tea also creates an aged, slightly grungy look on species like willow and elm. These species seem to get more color change from tea. This, without any iron treatment.

Tannins react with metals like iron. Soak a pad of fluffed-out, oil-free fine steel wool in 2 cups of clear vinegar at least overnight. To make oil-free steel wool, rinse the steel wool in thinner, then let the steel wool dry fully. Vinegar reacts with iron in the steel wool to make iron acetate. Apply your vinegar solution to any tannin bearing wood, like oak. Also, apply your iron solution to any wood that has been treated with tea.

The resulting color usually looks like aged oak. It ranges from a silvery gray to a dark brown, depending on the amount of tannins present, the concentration of iron acetate, and other factors. Iron salts applied to many species has little or no effect, and now you see the reason why. The quick way to see the effects of iron is to look at old construction or old furniture where nails or iron hardware contacts the wood. If you see dark zones around the nail or hinge, then the wood species does react with iron to create color.'

Lots of interesting woodworking info on this site.
http://www.woodworking.org/WC/gazette.html
Good ole Uncle Sam.

Have you an offcut with which to experiment? I would.... If you don't like the effect, no guarantee it can be unwound.

Ivor

 

[skier-hughes]

coat it in lime, leave for a while and then scrape it off.

 

[CliffordPope]

If they are just plain beams, I'd agree with the desire to try and make the new one match in colour.

But if they are shaped beams, with visible joints, pegs, etc, and the new one exactly replicates the construction of the old ones, I'd leave it. It's part of the history of the house, and in fact reinforces the sense of seemless passage of time as a building slowly evolves, decays, is repaired, rejuvenated.

I remember reading an account by someone restoring an ancient Scottish castle. A lot of the timber needed replacement, but he decided deliberately to leave the wood unfinished and un-treated, and green, exactly as the originals had once been when new. Over the succeeding centuries the new wood will aquire its own smoke stains, dirt and patina, and will probably warp just like the others did.

 

[davidbrac]

The easiest way to ebonise oak, is to use Acetic acid this is easy to make by adding iron filings to vinegar. I use it in my woodwork quite a bite and find the brown vinegar and steel wool is the best way to make it.

Put it in a glass jar and leave for a day, then just brush on and it will change colour over a time period.

 

[Penners]

Ammonia fumes are very irritating and corrosive to the eyes, nose and airways. Fumes may cause a burning sensation, coughing, wheezing, shortness of breath, laryngitis, rhinitis and watery eyes, even at low levels. People with asthma or other respiratory problems may be especially sensitive to ammonia fumes, as may individuals with corneal disease, glaucoma, or severe liver damage.

Eye contact may cause severe eye burns, blindness, cataracts and glaucoma. High exposure to ammonia fumes may also cause temporary blindness and eye damage.

Skin contact with low ammonia concentrations may cause skin irritation; high concentrations will cause burns and open sores if not washed away quickly.

Breathing concentrated ammonia fumes may cause headache, loss of sense of smell, nausea, vomiting, increased heart rate, and high blood pressure. Breathing in very high levels may cause pulmonary oedema, a medical emergency, with severe shortness of breath and a build up of fluid in the lungs.

I would never try using any kind of ammonia treatment indoors. The only fairly safe way to darken oak with ammonia fumes is to build a well-sealed outdoor polythene tent, with the beam and the ammonia source inside it.

I have repaired a number of houses using new, green oak beams amongst the original, darker ones. Personally I found the effect of seeing the new oak among the old extremely pleasing and satisfying, reflecting as it did my own contribution to the history of the building. The new oak will eventually darken.

 

[Sonyaclegg]

Thank you all. I would prefer to leave it as is as I do like the contrast between the old and new which marks the renovation of the house. My husband is irritated by it as it too new for him.

I don't want to subject the decorator to any harm so won't be going down the ammonia route. :shock:

 

[Zebra]

Probably best if you replace your husband.

 

[Sonyaclegg]

Lol, never. I am very lucky that he is the most lovely husband and I'm not letting him off that easily!

 

[LadyArowana]

Probably best if you replace your husband.

Isn't that almost as much bother as trying to get new beams to match old beams? Sadly one of my buddies is going through the process right now and the forms alone are enough to convince you to stick with the one you have. We were reviewing her documents and His Lordship came home somewhat early and was a little worried about what he must have unwittingly done, before he realised they were not *my* forms :shock: