bay window roof repair

[plasticpigeon]

Hello, I have had a quote for slating by bay window roof, and leading the hip rolls and top flat section. The flat section is around 1ft x 5 ft. The quote is £850, does that sound right??

 

[Penners]

I have no experience of commissioning work like that, but the quote doesn't sound unreasonable to me, provided the roofer does a good quality job. So you need to be confident that you have the right people doing it.

 

[plasticpigeon]

The chap comes very highly recommended as a leadworker. However the slates he wishes to use are too big in my opinion which disappoints me, so i will need to have a chat.

 

[MatthewC]

Four years ago I had my bay window roof completely re-leaded (about 2.5 ft x 7ft) as ivy had got underneath and damaged it and so I was concerned about water ingress. As soon as the roofer pulled the lead up (the point of no return) we found that in fact the roof was constructed of concrete! I think I paid about £800 for no real benefit.

 

[Penners]

The chap comes very highly recommended as a leadworker. However the slates he wishes to use are too big in my opinion which disappoints me, so i will need to have a chat.

Do you mean too big aesthetically? Remember that - within reason - the bigger they are the heavier they will be. This can be an advantage in high winds.

 

[plasticpigeon]

The chap comes very highly recommended as a leadworker. However the slates he wishes to use are too big in my opinion which disappoints me, so i will need to have a chat.

Do you mean too big aesthetically? Remember that - within reason - the bigger they are the heavier they will be. This can be an advantage in high winds.

Yes too big aesthetically. The thing is I said I wanted at least 4 courses showing beneath the leadwork which means 5 courses as lead will go over the top one with alternating square and chamfered slates to create a fishtail effect. I even showed a picture where the number of slates on the roof I am copying is visible. He claimed he knew exactly what I meant. However my roof is maybe 27" up the rafters, so using 10 x 20" slates would only get 3 courses and it would look silly as there would be too few across the width. I have found a place with 7 x 14" slates which seems a better size. I am going to end up doing it myself I can tell, it is almost always the way.

 

[Flyfisher]

Have you asked the builder to use the size of slates and the exact arrangement you want? Has he refused to do it your way?

 

[plasticpigeon]

Have you asked the builder to use the size of slates and the exact arrangement you want? Has he refused to do it your way?

Not really, he hasn't refused, if he did I wouldn't think of using him. I showed him a picture and told him what I wanted without specifying sizes. He obviously just looked at the picture and guessed the size. Last time we spoke I asked him what size of slate he was going to use and he told me 10 x 20 was what he recommended. This set alarm bells ringing, as it seemed large, hence I got my tape measure out. I shouldn't have to micromanage, but so often I end up having to. In these circumstances more often than not it is less effort for me to do the job rather than constantly check up on and manage the person doing it. I am leaning towards getting the chap to do the lead but not the slates.

 

[TheRoost]

I would agree that 10 x 20" is too big for a bay roof. It's quite a common size (maybe its a 250 x 500mm continental size) that is fairly cheap and easy to get hold of, so that may be his only reason.

I bought some old 16 x 10 slates the other day, and they look too big for a bay roof also.

Would it be worth getting some alternative quotes, just to compare the price and see what size they would use?

 

[Flyfisher]

Have you asked the builder to use the size of slates and the exact arrangement you want? Has he refused to do it your way?

Not really, he hasn't refused, if he did I wouldn't think of using him. I showed him a picture and told him what I wanted without specifying sizes. He obviously just looked at the picture and guessed the size. Last time we spoke I asked him what size of slate he was going to use and he told me 10 x 20 was what he recommended. This set alarm bells ringing, as it seemed large, hence I got my tape measure out. I shouldn't have to micromanage, but so often I end up having to. In these circumstances more often than not it is less effort for me to do the job rather than constantly check up on and manage the person doing it. I am leaning towards getting the chap to do the lead but not the slates.

I wouldn't call it micromanaging, more a case of clearly specifying the requirements of the job, which is for the benefit of both parties. Differences of opinion or approaches is a classic cause of grief and the only way to avoid it is to clearly specify the works. Without it, you might find a builder who decides to use fake slates, the thinnest possible lead, hard cement mortar, etc, especially when trying to push for the lowest possible price.

In this case it seems you're fortunate to have the existing structure as a reference so it should be quick and easy to specify the works. I'd use a large, clear photograph of the existing structure together with a paragraph or two of general description and bullet points to specify the required materials, such as slate tiles, code? lead, mortar type, etc. You could even specify the tile size, though that should be calculable from the photo.

With a detailed specification the need to micro-manage on a daily basis is not so important because you have defined 'acceptance criteria', and any work that does not comply will be obvious and therefore not really subject to argument, though keeping an eye on things as they progress is generally preferable to an end-of-job dispute!

 

[Zebra]

I agree with Flyfisher that such accurate specifying is to the benefit of both parties, and in my experience, the right tradespeople for your job are the ones who understand what you're trying to achieve and are happy to let you take the lead and the responsibility for the outcome. I had an excellent young roofer do all my leadwork, but I handed him up mixed bucketloads of lime mortar to point the flashing back in with.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Thanks for your input. The existing structure I am trying to copy is on a house a few roads away, but it is good to have a physical reference. I should have specified everything beforehand rather than just giving a verbal description, it would have saved the angst, but I have so much to do that it is nice to just hand over a job to competent person if possible. In this case the slating job is so small I will just do it myself as I think trying to explain what I want is more effort.

I do agree with you FF, but in the past I have even drawn a brick bond for a whole wall and specified exact sand proportions to get the mortar colour correct and still got a total mess of a job nothing like what I asked for. One wall I had built 4 times before I realised it was never going to be right. I am beginning to fear that the chap that has been recommended to me might not be as good as people say, as he likes to tell me that I will be happy with the job rather than listen to what I want.

 

[Flyfisher]

Four attempts at a brick wall sounds rather excessive!

I probably shouldn't generalise but it sounds to me as if you've been unlucky with your tradesmen. In my limited experience, good tradesmen (or tradezebras :wink: ) are only too willing to listen to exactly what you want because it's in their interest - it's the only way they'll have an easy life and a satisfied customer.

If they're not interested in what you want then my bet is that they're more interested in doing it their way than your way - possibly an unfair assumption, but if I'm spending my money then I feel at liberty to make such assumptions. However, to be fair, the customer does have a responsibility to be absolutely clear about what they want and how they want it.

 

[LadyArowana]

I had an excellent young roofer do all my leadwork, but I handed him up mixed bucketloads of lime mortar to point the flashing back in with.

I agree that actually being there watching and helping if at all possible can help stave off misunderstandings, before things get past the point where it has to be ripped and done again.