basement quandry

[Anonymous]

I have a victorian mid terraced property with an unconverted basement under the whole of the ground floor. Part of the basement (approximately half of its size) has been bricked up and filled with rubble. The other half is already open. The adjoining house has the whole of their basement open which is what I would like to do with mine but an initial investigation has revealed that the bricked up area has waist height soil/ground level upon which sits the walls of the house! Has anyone heard of such a thing as this as it seems extremely odd to me when the adjoining property has walls all the way down? Any help would be great!

 

[Anonymous]

It does sound a bit odd.
The only explanation I can thing of is that the wall that you are describing may be a supporting wall for your ground floor.
Have a better look next door, you probably find that they have spanned the floor with a suitable beam support which could be concealed in the joists.
If this is the case then you can do the same.

( you may need planning permission)

 

[Anonymous]

Does the terrain slope away more towards the neighbours house? The original ground levels (if they are still obvious) would give you a clue as to why the two houses were built differently (if they were)...

 

[Anonymous]

Is it a proper basement or a cellar?

Early Victorian town houses tended to have proper basements - ie. rooms intended to be used as rooms, usually housing the kitchen and a servant's room. Coal cellars would generally be in vaults under the pavement or front garden.

Later Victorian houses however tended to have the kitchen in an extension at the back of the house. These houses often had cellars under the main rooms for coal and storage, rather than proper basements. These were not intended to be proper rooms and are often so low you cant stand up in them. Is yours of this kind perhaps?

These cellars can be converted into rooms by digging downwards. It happens a lot in places like Fulham in London, where there are many streets of such late Victorian houses and where space is at a premium becasue because of high property prices. Advice from an experienced structural engineer would be highly advisable before beginning any excavations.

 

[Anonymous]

Depending on the house prices in your area it's probably worth the gamble of getting a structural engineer in to have a look. If he says it's holding the house up you lose a few hundred quid. If he says a conversion is possible you could increase the value of your property by several thousand.

 

[Anonymous]

It would seem that I'm in a a similar quandry to Rach, having explored what was behind the wall in my own cellar this weekend. (waiting for woodstain to dry and being idly curious is fatal...whileImatitis I call it)
I have a mid-terrace back to back in Armley Leeds, dating to circa 1901. In my case half the cellar is open and the other half is half filled with rubble (under my living room). Follow the link below to see what I've, erm, unearthed...

I could do with some advice as to whether its feasible to proceed with excavating the rubble and converting the room to full use. I intend to do as much of the job myself as I can possible (with the help of friends and family!), but recognise that I will need expert help at certain points. My plan of action goes as follows:-

1. Get a structural engineer in to assess whether any structural work would be needed - if so I would guess that this would be a job to require planning permission and be covered by the party wall act - if so the project could well become unfeasible on cost grounds alone. I guess this depends on how far down the existing walls go? Any idea how much such a consultation might cost?

2. Excavate the rubble to slightly below the floor level in the existing part of the cellar, and put in a concrete floor (I am aware that I'll need some sort of membrane etc)

3. Put in a small window in the exterior wall (the soil level outside is approx 2ft down from the joists in picture 100_0228)

4. Damp proof the walls (the picture labelled 100_0228 is the only exterior wall) - The existing cellar is only slightly damp against the exterior wall and is well ventilated, although exposed pipework does tend to attract condensation, so I am considering a dehumidifier. I currently use it as a bar / computer/ laundry /workroom. Would a cavity damp proofing mechanism be needed? or just membrane/treatment of the existing walls?

5. Fit out, plaster, decorate etc - presumably building regs will cover electrical wiring etc - there is an existing exterior door in the open part of the cellar to use as fire escape.

Overall I will be on a somewhat limited budget for this, but I am prepared to be patient and do one stage at a time as and when it becomes feasible.

Having been captivated by this site I appreciate that there a lot of very knowledgable and helpful people posting to this discussion board so I do hope some of you can point me in the right direction, even if it's to tell me to forget it until I've won the lottery!

PS On a historical note I am assuming that the reason so many houses of this period have cellars that are at least partially rubble filled is because it would have cost a fortune to take it all away by horse and cart at the time - can anyone confirm this is true? My neighbour at the rear has a slightly smaller area 2/3rds full of rubble too.



lots and lots of rubble...

 

[Anonymous]

Mike's basement problem is exactly like mine, with the front room of the basement open and the back room bricked up. Removing some of the bricked up wall has revealed the room full of what I thought was simple rubble, to waist height. Investigation revealed that underneath the rubble (about 1 foot) is soil. Having carefully dug down a little, it seems the dividing wall with the neighbour's property is of two brick width with tied in bricks at occassional points. However, (looking through a gap created by a loose brick which came out) the bricks on the neighbours side of this wall appears to go all the way down to the normal floor level of the basement whilst the bricks on our side of the wall only go down as far as the height of the 'waist height' soil and there doesn't seem to be any reason for it. I haven't yet investigated whether other walls in the back basement room are like this, but I imagine they are.

Mike's photos are uncannily like my basement. It would be interesting to know whether Mike's investigations reveal whether his rubble is simply sitting on about 1 metres worth of pure soil too!

Thank you to everyone who posted other responses. In answer to them, the basement is a full height basement (approx 2 metres) and is the size of and underneath the whole of the ground floor of the house and includes an old coal shuttle area which is directly beneath the front door and hallway. I assume the basement intended to house rooms at the time of the build as there is a fireplace in the front of the basement. My neighbour has the front and back of their basement open (unfortunately they bought just after me so they have no info) and their house is on the same level as mine.

It is a real mystery!! I hope to get a structural engineer round to take a look.

 

[Anonymous]

I presume you would need to dig an inspection pit down to find where the footings are.

If one of you needs to convert at little cost, but cant dig down and underpin, it is still possible, with limitations. The soil is removed at 38 degrees, so the footings have a satisfactory cone of support. The result is a room with a reduced area of flat floor and a steep slope next to the walls. How is that useful? Seating needs to be modified to fit, ditto cupboards, but it can be made usable.

NT

 

[CABS13]

I have a basement room which is already converted to a bedroom. It has an annoying step around all walls that is too small to use practically. Too large to ignore. But it's a nice room with a window to the front, Worryingly it is completely wood panelled and painted yellow. Looks like previous owners weren't keen on pointing. My upstairs walls were are pretty terrible with a wooden frame infilled with whole and broken bricks. Anyway I like the wood paneling, it feels warm
Anyway main basement room is under lounge. I was curious about whether there was a chamber under dining room too. So I took a drill to the wall at the bottom of stairs, opposite main basement. I used an endoscope and attached it to a tablet 1end, and taped the other end to a long garden cane for support. Under dining room there is a space with rubble and a more modern disgarded wire or hose reel. There appeared to have what looks like old yellow and brown patterned floor tiles. But a lot of rubble too.
Since the dining room floor joists need dealing with the with as theyo are so springy. I feel it would-be better to access from under the floor.
When I had the stairs replaced I needed another doorway to dining area from lounge. Under the doorway the floor was up one day and there was a proper cellar. Shorter than head height at around 4-5feet deep 3-4 wide of from wall to top of bottom stairs about 5 feet.. It extends to the side of chimney breast. So I conclude it was for coal. Its totally empty and its walls look in better condition than the walls everywhere else. I am trying to find someone who is completely sure they put in a trap door without safety concerns. I think that this task is a bit beyond me. But I'll dig out some old photos of the spaces. But I call the front room a basement, and the smaller chamber, a cellar as its primarily for storage.