auction or not?

[robgil]

i put an offer in on a house last week, the estate agent said it was the highest offer they had but today i got a letter asking for my best and final offer as did a lot of other perspective buyers , some tender or something, does this happen often? i think i might just go and offer the asking price on every house they have listed just on the off chance that i might actually be able to buy one from them. < sorry , thats a rant isnt it?

 

[Penners]

Yes, that's quite normal. And bear in mind that, even if yours is the highest offer, it won't necessarily guarantee that you get the house. Sometimes vendors opt for a lightly lower bid from a someone who is better placed to cough up the full cash amount quickly.

My only advice would be to try and cast off the tendency to think in round numbers. People will often just bid a logical round number in multiples of ten or five thousand pounds. Consider the best offer that you can come up with, and then add, say, £1000 to it. Sometimes that little extra can tip the scales.

Oh, and one other thing. If you do win the house, tell the agent very firmly that you don't want to know what the next highest bid was. If you won by £1000 you'll be delighted, but if you won by £20,000 you'll be as sick as a very sick thing.

Good luck - let us know how you get on.

 

[robgil]

thanks penners , if you get an offer accepted can you re-negotiate if the survey uncovers lots of problems?

 

[JoceAndChris]

I believe so. We held back several thousand for water works to be carried out, and forced the vendor to pay for some sort of insurance policy to help guarantee our legal access to the property. (I should stress this pressure came from our solicitor acting on our behalf) The vendor wasn't a bit pleased, but what could he do? He might have considered pulling out from selling it to us, but by then I think people feel they're in too deep and they just want to get the sale over with.

Good luck Rob, this bit's so stessful.

 

[robgil]

brilliant , thankyou , it is quite stressful , they definitely don't make it easy do they.

 

[JoceAndChris]

no it's far from easy.

Oh, and I think your eyes and nose will be more revealing than a full survey, ours isn't worth the paper it's written on: this forum has told me a lot more about my house than that surveyor.

But you're probably aware of their limitations, and maybe you know someone rather expertful at Period Properties.

 

[robgil]

the house is in a very bad state so i am expecting a pretty grim result from a survey to be honest. i know what you mean though , this house in particular is a wooden framed house but someone has 'thoughtfully' rendered the outside walls with a cement based render, chimneys and all , needless to say most of this render is no longer attached to the house. there are a few other worrieng things but i am pretty sure a survey will uncover a wealth of niggles that i couldn't spot. i was told the last buyers pulled out because of the survey.
if i do get as far as a survey i think money spent on someone who deals specifically with older houses will be money well spent.

 

[Cloudscape]

When I was really drawn to a house, I sent in a (good) surveyor before I even made an offer, so I was armed with something when I did make the offer. I'd say that you should find out as much as possible about what you're buying, especially if your heart is playing a part in the process. Even local knowledge might be useful, from (say) people who have nothing to lose by telling you that, once a month, sewage will erupt in your garden. :wink: The 'auction' process can be a bit more like a lottery. In a real auction, you can see what other people are up to (although telephone bids always throw a spanner in the works). In your situation, you're flying blind. It's unfair and stressful, and I never cease to be amazed how cutthroat people can be. Keep on the right side of the estate agent (however you might actually feel), and as outwardly calm as you can muster. But if you want it... stop at nothing.

 

[Flyfisher]

it is quite stressful , they definitely don't make it easy do they.

Always remember that they only have their own interests at heart; they are not really interested in you except as a potential purchaser and will have little regard to your own circumstances. It's nothing personal, it's just business.

To counter this, try to deal with it in the same way. Make up your own mind about the terms on which you want to deal. If they send you a long list of terms and conditions, read them carefully and if there are any you don't agree with simply cross them out and countersign. If you want to modify or add any conditions then do it, e.g. make your offer subject to survey if that's a specific concern. Just make it crystal clear. People sometimes become a bit over-awed when presented with a legal document and think they have to follow it to the letter, but until you've signed on the dotted line you don't have to agree anything. Equally, they don't have to agree to any terms you may wish to impose but that's the whole point of negotiating; to come to a mutually acceptable agreement that both parties can live with. Just remember it's always a two-way process.

Admittedly, this is often easier said than done because a house buyer will usually have an emotional attachment because they're hoping to buy a home whereas the vendor and agent are simply selling an asset. But it's important to feel good about the final deal, whatever it is, and that usually means doing the business on terms that you're comfortable with.

 

[JoceAndChris]

That's really sound advice from Cloudscape and Flyfisher. Knowledge is power, especially when it comes to bargaining. Find out absolutely everything you can. I wriggled my way into previous owner's affections, we wined and dined and even spent a night here prior to buying, all of which told me far more than any survey. Wander round this house, talk to neighbours or anybody. And just be aware that no matter how many problems and costs you foresee there will probably be more and you sign your life and wealth away when you buy a needy old house, but of course it's worth it!

The reason why I am so disgruntled with my surveyor, who claimed to be an expert in old houses, who came from Stamford, surely the most beautiful Georgian town in England- was because he never ONCE mentioned breathability or seemed to have any awareness of the horrors things like cement render and pointing cause. You know about these things, so your eyes are wide open fortunately. But he suggested a DPC, thank God we used our own brains before going down that road...

Your position of strength comes from the fact that you don't appear to be daunted by houses on the brink of death- most people run a mile, loads and loads ran from ours when they realised that water and access were potential problems.

Stay strong, be firm, and hold out on prices if you can- we didn't and immediately upped our offer when the first was declined- I'm sure now that if we'd waited a few days our original offer would have been accepted - but I wanted the house so badly I made Chris offer 10k more! Never mind, the memory of the money fades whilst the love just gets more and more I think!

 

[JoceAndChris]

a house will usually have an emotional attachment because they're hoping to buy a home whereas the vendor and agent are simply selling an asset.

This can be true, but it depends doesn't it? I shouldn't think any one of us on this forum would see the sale of their home as just the sale of an asset, but rather as a careful handover of guardianship of our history.

I wouldn't sell Beacon Cottage to any old Tom Dick or Harry. They would need to demonstrate some love or appreciation of historic buildings.

But it doesn't sound like Rob's house is benefitting from a scrupulous owner just now.

 

[Flyfisher]

I agree with that sentiment Joce but, in practice, how much hard cash would you (or anyone) be prepared to forego on the basis that you didn't like the buyer?

£500 might not influence the matter, maybe not even £1,000, but what about £5,000, or £10,000, or more?

As I'm expecting to be carried away in a box (or, most likely, put in a hole in the garden) before our house is sold, it's not likely to be an issue for me. But I suspect that I'd sell to the highest bidder and let the listing laws protect the house for the future. At least I'll be able to rest easy in the knowledge that I left the house in a better state than when I took it on. Anyway, if I'm still in the grounds I could haunt anyone who abuses the place!

 

[JoceAndChris]

Well, if one has to have a ghost, you'd be great, I'm sure you'd be very polite and gentlemanly in your nudgings to use lime mortar or whatever.

I hope that I' ll be in the fortunate position not to worry about 20 k here or there, as we have other properties, and ideally I 'd only advertise selectively, ie on this website, to attract people who value old intact houses.

The previous owner turned down a higher offer from a Property Developer who wanted to build several houses here. What a heroic gesture.

But I know that not everyone could put their scruples first. That's why listing is so important: I wish all old properties were listed.

 

[ilona73]

Well, if one has to have a ghost, you'd be great, I'm sure you'd be very polite and gentlemanly in your nudgings to use lime mortar or whatever.

I hope that I' ll be in the fortunate position not to worry about 20 k here or there, as we have other properties, and ideally I 'd only advertise selectively, ie on this website, to attract people who value old intact houses.

The previous owner turned down a higher offer from a Property Developer who wanted to build several houses here. What a heroic gesture.

But I know that not everyone could put their scruples first. That's why listing is so important: I wish all old properties were listed.

I quite agree with you ..Having seen what the previous owners have done to the house we are about to move into and make our home i dread to think what state others are in. We have plasterboard partition walls put up, skylights insterted on the top floor and all sorts f things going on all with relevant permissions..and its only down to a very understanding and patient CO that we wont get into any trouble over it as we plan to restore everything back to how it should be.I think with period properties all prospective buyers should have to sit an exam on the basics of owning and caring for one.This would not only protect special properties but would also ensure only the right respectful purchasers get to own them.A bit harsh i know but it would save the travesty of what happens to some of the most beautiful properties out there being left to go to ruin or being demolished...ggrrrrrrrr :twisted: makes my blood boil and want to cry when i see some of them.

 

[Schoolmarm]

Don't make yourself ill or bankrupt for a house at this stage, there is always another just around the corner.

One without any cement would be a thousand times better.

 

[Penners]

if you get an offer accepted can you re-negotiate if the survey uncovers lots of problems?

I think that rather depends on the terms under which the offer is made. To be on the safe side, I would ask the agent to see the full terms, and if necessary get your solicitor to look them over.

If it's an "informal tender" then I think you're OK. But do be sure before you commit yourself.

 

[robgil]

thanks for the advice guys , it is an informal tender and our solicitor said to make the offer stc which is fair enough.
hopefully karma will be looking down on us , today in town we found a bank card out side the bank and left it in , then we found a blackberry pda phone thingy in the shopping centre and left that into the police, you never know eh?

can anyone recommend a good surveyor for a 480 odd year old building east of Cambridge?

 

[Flyfisher]

Well, if one has to have a ghost, you'd be great, I'm sure you'd be very polite and gentlemanly in your nudgings to use lime mortar or whatever.

Not if I didn't like them!

 

[Penners]

can anyone recommend a good surveyor for a 480 odd year old building east of Cambridge?

I have no experience of them myself, but the following firm have links with this website, and have contributed valuable expert advice freely over the years. Their credentials are excellent.

http://www.wcp-surveyors.com/contact.asp

As you can see, they have an office in Bury St Edmunds.

 

[Wren]

The surveyor will be able to make an assessment based on what they can see, but depending on the circumstances they may be limited in terms of what they can try to uncover (e.g. pulling away the concrete render to see how bad it looks underneath etc.). And even then that doesn't necessarily tell you how much it will cost to fix. It's all risk, life is risk.

My main advice is to say that you would like to be (discretely) present during the survey with the opportunity for a quick chat at the end. Then the surveyor can explain any big issues with the real thing in front of you (and you can say what about that big crack in the wall over there...).
(You might also want to ask whether it is a surveyor you want or a structural engineer, although either way you want good one.)

The dishonesty in the whole housebuying game really winds me up, particularly as I refuse to sink to that level (buyers who lie when they say they are cash buyers when they are not, and bungs to agents etc).