Attic conversion without planning permission

[mikemurr]

I'm in the process of buying a Georgian farmhouse, and find that the attic conversion - done about 3 years ago - has no planning approval. The local council are entirely unaware of the works having taken place.

Its also evident that building regs approval were never sought either - there are no fire doors or alarms, the new attic staircase is not enclosed - and that's just the stuff that are visible... however, the works that are visible do appear to be done to a good standard.

My solicitor is having kittens over this but I need to know what the implications are in the real world - anyone been through this? I plan to do some alterations, so sooner or later the building department is going to come and look around.

Am I likely to get retrospective pp/regs without too much hassle? Or is an attic conv too complex for this? Might they require everything to be exposed again to check thermals, vents, etc?

The current owner is adopting a 'take it or leave it' attitude and I'm already paying top dollar. Any advice out there, please?

 

[Nemesis]

It's not good - you may find this useful:

http://www.stroud.gov.uk/docs/planning/building_enforcement.asp?did=build_enforce


With Building Regs, as with Planning Permission, there is a legal time limit beyond which action cannot be take, However, if this is a listed building, and LBC wasn't gained, there is no time limit for enforcement.

The real worry is - have the works been carried out to a safe and satisfactory standard? There may be dodgy stuff hidden.

Such things as modern fire regs may not have been complied with - but for many period buildings that can apply, they were built before building control was invented as we now know it.

Difficult one. You may be able to take out insurance in case of action by the local authority. And despite the time limits it's surprising how many have trouble selling again without all paperwork, no matter how far back.

Some of it is solicitors without much idea, or simply trying to make more cash...

 

[mikemurr]

Thanks for quick reply, Nemesis, you've summed up the key issue here - I might be prepared to take a chance, but subsequent buyers may not.

I really want to talk to the council, but I'm told that if I do, then I cannot ever take out the insurance thingy... plus I don't particularly want to open a can of worms and cause trouble for the current owner.

:roll: Decision time looms - to risk it or not. Maybe get in an independent surveyor, tell them the issues, seek a revaluation, then decide...?

 

[CHRIS]

Why not offer a revised price taking this into account, offer a price for the property as though the conversion had not taken place.

Make this a final offer and leave it to the estate agent to explain your reasons (be prepaired to hold your nerve as it may just work).

Nem is right with the idea of dodgy stuff, why not get planning if you have done it correctly is the queston you should be asking and with regards selling on again it may be a right headache.

 

[Tom]

I agree with Chris. Offer a revised price taking all this into account. That should give you enough money to put things right, if needed. In that scenario, you can go to the council without too many worries. Even if they insist you rip everything out and start again, you'll be fine. Just make sure you reduce the price sufficiently!! It may just work. After all, the vendors will be in this position again if they reject your offer and get a second purchaser. Perhaps if you explain that to them, they may see sense....hopefully!

Jaqy

 

[Lime]

The problems with a loft conversion that hasn't been approved in any way are that you never know what the council will do if they find out and, more importantly, you don't know what hasn't been done properly either.
Loft conversions are not usually just laying down a few boards, knocking a hole in the roof and flinging up some stairs.

The fire risk aspect is a real one and won't go away.
This feature has to be built in to the conversion and not just added later.
If you have a fire I doubt that your insurance would cover you in this situation.

Then there is safety in general.
how safe is the structure?
Has the alteration weakened any parts of the original house?
Without a full and detailed structural survey you will never know until something happens.

Will you get retrospective planning permission?
It depends on other properties in the street if similar work has already been done.
You may find that the council insist on reinstatement as happen to a house in my street a few years ago.

Will you get retrospective building regulation approval?
No, not without having to reveal all the normal required additions such work usually entails.
Modern regulations have changed and you will be asked for paperwork next time you sell your property.




I think your solicitor is quite right to be having kittens, I would have given birth long ago.

 

[Penners]

As others have observed, there are really two issues here.

The first is the law. Depending on how long ago the work was done, you may or may not be at risk of enforcement action by the local authority. The question of whether your house is listed is critical - if it is, that risk will never disappear.

The second is "real life". The building regs exist for a reason - to ensure that our housing stock is safe and healthy to live in. As Lime has said, no matter what the legal position, you'll have to live in this house, and if the conversion has been done shoddily you will constantly be at risk of (at best) some kind of structural problem(s), and (at worst) personal injury.

Of course, the conversion may have been done appropriately, expertly and to a high standard, but if that was going to be the case why didn't the householder simply apply for the appropriate consents?

As Nemesis mentioned, you may be able to insure against various risks in this situation - you should discuss that with your solicitor. But are you sure you really want to proceed with this purchase?