Asbestos!

[Fizzer]

We've just take the baffle plate out of our inglenook (to the right of the 1960's 'thing' on the left) - got showered in 47 years worth of soot (as you might expect) but it has given us a good view of the cavernous space within!

The 1960's chimney stops at about the top of the beam then on top of that is what looks like a 8" diameter flue that appears to be made of asbestos
It's only 2 feet tall and vents into the chimney (hence loads of soot on the baffle plate)

We'll get the chimney swept then I'm going to take a look at the flue to see if it's removable in one piece or if its embedded in the stonework.

If so I guess I'll need a specialist asbestos company to get rid of the entire 1960s construction?

Eventually the plan is to install a multifuel stove and I'm hoping that a new flue going all the way up to the top of the chimney will be a relatively cheap option (not having to line the whole thing)

I'm basing this on a lot of assumptions, is anyone can point me in the right direction I'd be grateful!

 

[BMcD]

here's a link to the HSE's leaflets on asbestos

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/asbindex.htm

 

[Nemesis]

It may just be a pipe which can be removed without too much damage.

We had one as a part flue.

 

[NT]

The risk of the asbestos depends on which asbestos it is, and in what condition. White asbestos thats not disintegrating is not a danger, but disintegrating blue or brown is.

In >95% of cases asbestos disposal cos are a simple basic service at excessive prices when the diyer can safely remove and dispose with basic guidance.


NT

 

[Schoolmarm]

Is the corrugated sheet stuff found on farm buildings the dangerous stuff?

Sorry to hijack this thread.



edited for spelling :roll:

 

[NT]

Rigid White asbestos sheet is as near to harmless as anything gets, and white asbestos is present in millions of homes in the UK, mainly as roofing sheet and in boilers & heaters.

Blue (crocidolite) and brown (amosite) are the dangerous asbestoses.

Rigid sheets lock the fibres in the cement, theyre not released. Its loose wolly asbestos that comprises almost all the risk.

Loose fibre brown asbestos insulation is often grounds for permanently sealing and abandoning an outbuilding and what's in it. At the other end of the scale, white asbestos sheet is in widespread use in houses, and constitutes less risk than a sillion other every day items and events. Unfortunately it shares the same name as the nasties, despite not being the same subtance.

The above is argued over... you can always read the arguments and decide for yourself.


NT

 

[Schoolmarm]

Thanks NT

 

[Johneds]

The main question with any asbestos containing material (ACM) is whether it is a controlled type or whether it is notifiable.

Asbestos fibre board is both controlled and notifiable and by law can only be handled and disposed of by licensed operators. If you were to remove it you would be breaking the law, placing yourself at risk and you would have a big problem as to where to dispose of it.

Asbestos CEMENT board, however, is neither controlled nor notifiable and can be handled and disposed of by anybody. One of your local tips will have a special skip which will take domestic disposals. The material is still treated as special waste though and it must be double bagged and sealed otherwise they won't take it. And when removing it you should still take precautions. As a minimum face mask, gloves and a disposable overall. If you can it is also sensible to wet the material down before handling it. (Usually quite easy with roof sheets) Finally, avoid breaking the material as much as possible and definitely don't saw it up or cut it with a grinder etc.

So how do you identify asbestos cement board? Well, technically it has to do with the amount and type of asbestos present and the density of the material. High density material has a high cement content and therefore a low ACM content. Simple test it to tap it with something hard. If it gives a high pitched tone it will be AC. You then have two choices. If it is a small quantity you could treat and handle the whole lot as if it was asbestos cement. If it is a large quantity you would be better off taking a sample and having it tested. Of course treat the sample as if it was asbestos cement.

If in doubt get somebody in to test it but ask questions about removal, disposal and licensing and be cautious if you get a sharp intake of breath.

 

[Fizzer]

Cool, thanks for all the info, as soon as the chimney is swept I'll send a small child up to take a look. :wink:

 

[MdB]

Some may have read about my 1950s caravan which I'm in the process of demolishing (more here). Most of the internals were taken out today including a small amount of what is probably asbestos cement board around where I guess there was a gas boiler at some time. This I removed whilst wearing a mask and wetted everything down first. Not something I am worried about.

The problem though is the main insulation in the walls which I had assumed to be glass fibre. Finding the asbestos cement sheet suddenly made me think that this insulation may contain asbestos too. I've searched for images on google at what I've got looks like glass fibre and doesn't look like asbestos insulation to my uneducated eye. I'll try and get some pictures taken tomorrow but am I worry too much or is it possible it could contain asbestos?

 

[Aidan]

I'll try and get some pictures taken tomorrow but am I worry too much or is it possible it could contain asbestos?

Possible, it was used in just about everything. It was very good at what it was used for and the problems generally didn't appear until 30 odd years later.

It would be sensible to get some samples tested. You'd need to double-bag it in plastic bags (sandwich bags) and send it to a lab in a Jiffy bag. Label each sample so you know where it's from. I think you need to mark the envelope (look on the Royal Mail site). You'll find test labs in Yellow pages. It used to cost about £20 each I think, but the place where I worked used to have material tested regularly. They may ramp up the charges for a private one-off job.

 

[MdB]

Having looked at it again this morning and having looked at the asbestos insulation images last night, I am sure this is glass fibre rather than asbestos. However, if it does contain asbestos, it is likely to be the worst type being in lose fibre form which you don't want to muck about with. Unless a couple of people say I'm worrying too much, I think I'll get it tested. Any recommendations? How long does it take?

 

[inwood]

MDB, I used RPS plc to do my asbestos testing. They were very professional, quick (about 3 days) and provided an official certificate to confirm the status of the sample. I think you can pay more if you wish for a quicker turnaround. It cost about £25 for a single sample. They can be contacted on 01235 438000 (http://www.rpsgroup.com)to find a local office that you can take the sample to.

 

[inwood]

Here's a link to their offices around the country:
http://www.rpsgroup.com/location_html/great-britain.html

 

[MdB]

I've just spoken to Shield Environmental (http://www.shieldenvironmental.co.uk) on the phone who have a local office near me and the guy there was very helpful. He had a look at the pictures and was able to state that it was glass fibre due the way that the fibres reflected the camera flash. Asbestos fibres are completely matt and don't reflect light.

Glass fibre is still horrible stuff so I'll be wearing masks, eye wear and gloves when I take it out but at least I don't now have to worry about asbestos.