After knocking down a (relatively recent) wall in my 17th C cottage, I have discovered that underneath the Artex-type ceiling is an old lath and plaster ceiling that is probably 18th or 19th C. Also, the walls had been covered in a kind of rough plasterwork which seems to be a similar material to the ceiling. Underneath is a mixture of old lime plaster (fairly solid) and cement etc where alterations have been done. After removing some test areas of paint, I have found that the Artex/plaster is easily removed with water and a sponge or scraper as it becomes soft and putty-like when wet, so the old plaster is easily exposed. My concern is that I do not know what the new plaster/Artex is (but I do know it was done in the late 1970's) or if it contains asbestos; I do know that it has lime in it as it fizzes in vinegar. Any suggestions? Most people I have spoken to (builders etc) advise me to leave it alone as the ceiling and plasterwork might not be very good anyway - and if I want a smooth ceiling, they say I should just counterbatten plasterboard onto the old one.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Artex
- Thread starter MDE
- Start date
Penners
Member
- Messages
- 17,294
- Location
- Suffolk, England
Older formulations of artex did contain asbestos, I believe. I'm not sure of the date when it was removed from the formulation, but I think asbestos was generally banned around the mid 1980's, so it's possible that your artex could contain it.
In your shoes, I think I would look at the possibility of (a) plasterboarding over the artex ceiling, leaving the lath and plaster/artex in place, or (b) trying one of the artex cover-up products that you can find in DIY stores. Both of these techniques has the advantage of conserving historic lath-and-plaster underneath (or should that be above?) the new ceiling.
In your shoes, I think I would look at the possibility of (a) plasterboarding over the artex ceiling, leaving the lath and plaster/artex in place, or (b) trying one of the artex cover-up products that you can find in DIY stores. Both of these techniques has the advantage of conserving historic lath-and-plaster underneath (or should that be above?) the new ceiling.
biffvernon
Member
- Messages
- 4,607
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Penners' advice is probably so sensible that no one else has added another answer.
The asbestos question is enough to make most sensible people want to cover it up and the thought of scraping stuff overhead will make everyone else want to cover it up.
On the other hand, if, as you say, it comes off easily when wet, my non-expert view would be that even if it did contain asbestos it would not produce any breathable dust so long as it stayed wet.
In a 17th century cottage you probably wouldn't want a new, flat ceiling and if there is damage to the lath and plaster this can be repaired by cutting back to sound material and adding new laths where appropriate and making good with lime plaster.
A labour of love but that's the sort of thing I would probably do, not being the sensible sort.
The asbestos question is enough to make most sensible people want to cover it up and the thought of scraping stuff overhead will make everyone else want to cover it up.
On the other hand, if, as you say, it comes off easily when wet, my non-expert view would be that even if it did contain asbestos it would not produce any breathable dust so long as it stayed wet.
In a 17th century cottage you probably wouldn't want a new, flat ceiling and if there is damage to the lath and plaster this can be repaired by cutting back to sound material and adding new laths where appropriate and making good with lime plaster.
A labour of love but that's the sort of thing I would probably do, not being the sensible sort.
I had posted this on the "period" forum too (complicated stuff, this forum business - I actually think the old one is more user-friendly) and received a thoughtful response from Evelyn, similar in conclusion to Biff's. I think I'll send off a sample of the "artex" for asbestos testing. I agree that doing the ceiling will be messy! The trick will be to get the emulsion off so that I can get at the water-soluble stuff. As regards the walls, if I take the "artex" off, there will be a mix of old lime plaster (good condition), wood, cement/concrete (where the window openings have been changed) and, no doubt, messy bits where wiring has been put in. I was thinking of "just" putting a finishing coat of lime plaster over the whole lot, followed by limewash. Any thoughts?
Hi MDE,
having read all of the comments on both the 'old' and 'new' forum I agree with all of the advice given.
If the artex does contain Asbestos it only becomes a problem if the process of removing it allows the particles to become airborne.
The idea, mentioned by Evelyn, combining partial panelling followed by the application of some form of plastering background e.g. clayboard or reed board to the upper section of the walls which can be plastered is ideal for a cottage-type interior. But, it may lead to an overall reduction in the rooms' dimensions. This may or may not be important to you.
Another point for future reference, which may come into play, if you decide to sell your property is the potential purchaser's survey. If the survey was to reveal Artex, at the present speedy rate of legislation, it may be law that it all has to be removed. This would act as a huge drag on selling the property or a baseball bat that the buyer will use to drive the price paid for it down.
What would I do? If the property was listed and I was planning to stay around I would look to remove it and reinstate with traditional materials. If the property was not listed and I only planned to stay around for a few years I would use suitable materials to cover it up.
regards
Rob
having read all of the comments on both the 'old' and 'new' forum I agree with all of the advice given.
If the artex does contain Asbestos it only becomes a problem if the process of removing it allows the particles to become airborne.
The idea, mentioned by Evelyn, combining partial panelling followed by the application of some form of plastering background e.g. clayboard or reed board to the upper section of the walls which can be plastered is ideal for a cottage-type interior. But, it may lead to an overall reduction in the rooms' dimensions. This may or may not be important to you.
Another point for future reference, which may come into play, if you decide to sell your property is the potential purchaser's survey. If the survey was to reveal Artex, at the present speedy rate of legislation, it may be law that it all has to be removed. This would act as a huge drag on selling the property or a baseball bat that the buyer will use to drive the price paid for it down.
What would I do? If the property was listed and I was planning to stay around I would look to remove it and reinstate with traditional materials. If the property was not listed and I only planned to stay around for a few years I would use suitable materials to cover it up.
regards
Rob
biffvernon
Member
- Messages
- 4,607
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Good to see the word, "just", in inverted commas. When my wife asks me to do something including that little word I have to add the inverted commas for her.MDE said:I was thinking of "just" putting a finishing coat of lime plaster over the whole lot, followed by limewash. Any thoughts?
Thanks to respondents on both forums (or is that fora?). I'll get the "artex" checked for asbestos first, then look at the various options. The house is not listed, but it is old (in parts), has some interesting features and I would like to treat it properly. However all of the rooms have either been done in the "artex" or woodchip so, aside from the expense, replacing it all means a lot of time and disruption. I may need to do something different in each room, but I'll try and do the right thing rather than rush it. In the meantime, I'm open to further suggestions and will post (somewhere) any solutions I find.
Penners
Member
- Messages
- 17,294
- Location
- Suffolk, England
When my wife asks me to do something including that little word I have to add the inverted commas for her.
Biff, I think we're living parallel lives (or somehow married to the same woman).
Actually, in our house there are two words that occur in such situations with monotonous regularity: "just" and "we". As in: "Could we just move that doorway two inches to the right?".
As you will know, "we" means "you" (ie: me) and "just" means "spend several days tearing out all the work that you've done, and then reinstating it".
To my relief, the asbestos testing of my "artex" proved negative, so at least I can proceed to remove or repair it according to taste (and appetite for messy jobs). For the ceiling, I was wondering about just knocking the tops off the stipples and using something like Aglaia renovation plaster. Does anyone have any experience of using this product?
Hi MDE -
Can you let me know who you had test your Artex?
I am in the (uncomfortable and worrying) position of having an artexed ceiling inadvertently fall down and fill my house with dust
Obviously worried - I don't live there now. But concerned about the health damage possibly done and the extent of the clear up - bearing in mind it will have passed through floorboards etc.#
Obviously hoping it is all negative - but ignorance on my part means that whilst I have worn a dust mask in the house, I've not exactly followed the correct protections and until a few days ago didn't realise the link...
Cheers
Chris - hopefully asbestos free////
Can you let me know who you had test your Artex?
I am in the (uncomfortable and worrying) position of having an artexed ceiling inadvertently fall down and fill my house with dust
Obviously worried - I don't live there now. But concerned about the health damage possibly done and the extent of the clear up - bearing in mind it will have passed through floorboards etc.#
Obviously hoping it is all negative - but ignorance on my part means that whilst I have worn a dust mask in the house, I've not exactly followed the correct protections and until a few days ago didn't realise the link...
Cheers
Chris - hopefully asbestos free////
MDE said:Asbestos Watchdog.
There is lots of information on their website.
Here is the link to the sampling service page:
http://www.asbestoswatchdog.co.uk/sampling.html
Good Luck
Cheers MDE
Are these the guys you used for sampling?
What sort of timescale did they work to? (it doesn't mention it on the webpage blurb)
Cheers!