Are grants for renovating 'heritage features' real or a pipe dream?

[Minkeycat]

We were just discussing the lane that runs round our terrace of houses. It's cobbled and I'd imagine part of the listing as the terrace is G2 listedI can't be certain if it is though. I can be certain that there'd be uproar if it were tarmacced or concreted over though so when it comes to it needing some work (which it already does in places) we were wondering if there are any kind of grants available for this kind of thing. I'm thinking they've probably gone the way of the thatched roof financial assistance but you it's always worth asking I guess!

Any info would be much appreciated!

 

[skier-hughes]

I asked our conservation officer when he came round to view our house, he said "If you can't afford to maintain it, you shouldn't have bought it. Not sure why you think the other tax payers should do it for you."

 

[Flyfisher]

When we took on our project 10 years ago I remember vaguely looking into grants and the like but my recollection is that they were accompanied by various restrictions such as being required to only use 'approved' builders, which were generally significantly more expensive than most. A bit like going to a garage for a car repair quote and the first question they ask is whether it's an 'insurance job', the answer to which seems to significantly affect their quotation for the work :evil: Also, they would only offer, say, half of the cost of the job, which was not all that useful for a DIY project. Incidentally, even the 'zero-rated VAT on alterations' assistance that was stopped a few years ago now was also not very helpful for the DIYer as it was never possible to actually reclaim any VAT actually paid. But maybe things have changed (except the VAT thing) in the last 10 years so it might be worth making your own enquiries.

Having said all that, whatever you may think about the comments made by Skier's CO mentioned above (and it could be a topic in its own right!), I'd say that, in practice, they are pretty much correct.

 

[Abi Cott]

If the lane is adopted land you might be able to get Highways to repair it. Unfortunately they will probably do this by tarmacing it so I'd avoid that if you can.

 

[88v8]

You should be able to find the listing detail for your property by typing 'House Name County listed building'. If the lane isn't mentioned it wasn't considered relevant. Perhaps if it's in a Conservation Area there may be some protection?

Yes, it's funny, if one owns a classic car, and I have two, the taxpayer pays one's road fund licence and one is protected from Nanny Fusspot and her steadily creeping 'safety' regulations because one does not need an MOT - another cost saving. But if one own a classic building, one has the hassle of maintaining it, possibly together with the aggravated costs of LBC if it's listed, and one receives not a penny of support.

Ivor

 

[Minkeycat]

Thank you all. As it transpires, the cobbles aren't included in the listing so technically we could do what we like but we won't because we like them and think they should protected. I just wondered what the chance of a grant was while expecting the answer "none"!

The stupid thing is that the cobbles were a public road until the council let them fall into disrepair and were then registered to us at first registration. Without the council's negligence they'd be perfect so it's probably a good job people like us lot own the buildings!

 

[Flyfisher]

Thank you all. As it transpires, the cobbles aren't included in the listing so technically we could do what we like but we won't because we like them and think they should protected.
[snip]
The stupid thing is that the cobbles were a public road until the council let them fall into disrepair and were then registered to us at first registration. Without the council's negligence they'd be perfect so it's probably a good job people like us lot own the buildings!

Can you clarify the status of this bit of road? Is it still a public road or still a public right of way? Is it an adopted road (meaning the council must maintain it)? I think these two points can still apply even if the area of land is privately owned - as your post seems to imply. In short - who is legally responsible for the maintenance of the road?

I'm pretty sure that anyone with a right of way over a private road also has a right to maintain the road, but not improve it. For example, if you have a right of way over a neighbour's gravel road to access your own property and the neighbour (the owner) allows the road to fall into disrepair such that you cannot exercise your right of way (e.g. by allowing the gravel drive to become a muddy quagmire) then you can maintain the road yourself, without consent, to enable you to exercise your right of way. In this example, by laying more gravel to restore the original condition of the road. But, crucially, you may not 'improve' the roadway.

I'm not a lawyer. I am only repeating what I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere (we are the owner of a stretch of private road over which a few neighbours have right of way, so I've read a few things about our rights and responsibilities) and don't know the legal interpretation of 'improve the roadway' but my layman's view would be that laying tarmac over a gravel road would constitute 'improvement'. On this basis it might be possible to successfully argue that laying tarmac over cobbles would also constitute 'improvement' - in which case the legal ownership of the roadway is of paramount importance because any 'improvement' could only be done with the consent of the landowner, regardless of who has any rights of way over the roadway.

From what you've already posted, it sounds as if each terraced property owns a part of the road. Fair enough, though that may not automatically mean you are collectively responsible for its maintenance, but it's also possible that you are. A quick enquiry to your local council should reveal if the road is 'adopted' by the council, or not.

 

[Minkeycat]

Hi

I'm not certain of the exact history of the road. It used to be a cobbled public street (pre-car) off a bigger street through the village. It led to an old chapel and beyond and looped round back onto the main street. Eventually the chapel closed and maintenance appeared to stop on the cobbles. What is now our little terrace of houses was all one house at the time and pretty much formed one side of this cobbled street and because ours is the main/original of the
houses so they 'owned' it somehow. When we came to buy our house a couple of years ago, it had to be compulsorily first registered and we were granted absolute title over the whole 'street' around its entire length. It's my understanding that this exonerates the council of any liability for maintenance but all the disrepair along it occurred on their watch as it were. I have no faith whatsoever in our council and, in particular, the planning department (don't get me started!) so it's probably better that the street is taken care of by a few locals with a vested interest in its survival because it provides them with access to their houses.
All the best

 

[Abi Cott]

A look at the Land Register should tell you if it's adopted land. The alleyway at the back of my house isn't and it's just left white on the map.

 

[Flyfisher]

I think 'adopted' in this sense just means that the council have taken responsibility for maintenance, I'm less sure about whether a private road can be adopted.
Lots of info on unadopted roads here: researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00402/SN00402.pdf

The local council should have a list of all their adopted roads, so it might be worth an enquiry to get a definitive answer. Also, all councils must maintain a 'definitive map' of public rights of way and, again, it would be worth an enquiry to determine if the road in question is still public.

From what Minkeycat has said, it sounds like each property has ownership of the area of roadway outside their house, as defined during the recent first registration. I would carefully check the title deed to see what, if any, maintenance responsibilities have been defined. Also, do neighbouring properties also have rights of way across the entire roadway or just that bit necessary to access their own property. if, for example, one or more neighbours have a right of way over 'your' piece of road, they should really also have associated responsibilities for maintenance. This should all be clearly defined in the title deeds for each property.

I've had previous experience of private roads as well as managing our current one and I'd say it is very important for each house owner to properly understand the extent of their maintenance responsibilities and that there should be some agreed means for managing this, bearing in mind that such works may be infrequent but may also be expensive and if there is no maintenance fund in place then collecting money for repair works might be something of a challenge!