Apotropaeic

[Jon Maine]

Any one know abour Apotropaeic markings? ( supersticious evil aversion markings)

We have one door frame which exhibits two scribed circles onder the head, a cross with one of its legs extended several times longer with a parrallel line scribed near it.

And I have only just noticed the burn marks, previously suspected to be part of the vandalism which occured to the building but under close inspection ancient as origional/ old decoration covers some. This consists of several burn marks by the upper hinge point on one jamb near the small scribing of the cross and some on the other jamb next to the latch and bolt keep. Apparently called touch marks or poker burns can anyone tell me more about them?

 

[Ian Bond]

You've possibly already found this website during your own research, but it may be of interest.

http://www.apotropaios.co.uk/ritual_marks.htm

Perhaps some of the marks are similar to yours?

 

[biffvernon]

Probably nothing to do with what you are talking about, Jon, but I took this photo last week on the underside of the bridge over the Swale at Catterick (as one does).

The picture should really be rotated 90 degrees but fits the screen better this way round. The marks are in the older half of the bridge built in 1422, and there are none in the newer, 1792, half. Some of the marks are high up, well beyond the reach of anyone without scaffolding so may have been made by the original masons, rather than modern yoofs.

What? Why?

 

[Jon Maine]

Thanks Ian, that one had slipped me by.

Biff, I would not be suprised to find out they were of this sort of thing, after all where did the troll from under the bridge origionate from? Supersticious lot awestruck by cathedrals and stories of spirits and witches.

Will try to post some pictures later.

 

[Ian Bond]

They look like things I've heard described as Masons' Marks.

I found this link, and one of the symbols is similar to one on the bridge (star shape). Another on the page looks like the laundry symbol for 'OK to use bleach".

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/history/marks/freemasonsmarks.html

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Biff -it may be my eyes but I can also see something underneath (but geographically above) the LH and middle panel markings on your pic.

Chisel marks form the mason, or something else? They look more deliberate/regular than chisel marks.

 

[biffvernon]

Yes, FamilyWiggs, it's real. There are areas full of chisel marks. I don't know much about the mason's craft and supposed they were just part of the stone dressing process with the guy hitting the chissel a bit too hard, but I may be quite wrong on that.

Thanks, Ian, for the link. Marks 13 an 14 on this page http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/history/marks/marks.html seem to be represented in my photo.

 

[Jon Maine]

Thats quite interesting, from the little knowledge I have about Apotropaeic markings there is a definate overlap with some markings shown on the masons marks and some apotropaeic I am familiar with.

One presumes that these markings meant the same thing whether they occured on a stone lintel above a fireplace, a wooden door frame or a cathedral or bridge. Not that the two in your picture match any I have seen labelled as apotropaeic markings.


And I found this,

apotropaeic: of Greek origin the word literally means 'to turn away'. An action described as apotropaic denotes one that is deflective or protective especially when used to describe averting evil or malevolent forces as a spiritually protective measure.

 

[Ian Bond]

It's very likely that a lot of 'innocent' constructional markings are misconstrued as apotropaeic, isn't it?

Perhaps some marks at entry points to buildings (door, windows, chimneys) are for this special purpose. Fascinating stuff.

 

[Jon Maine]

Perhaps some may get confused, certainly all of ours are limited to the usual bedroom doorways, fireplaces etc.

The busiest doorway we have has 10 seperate markings.

Ironically James Ayres was here on Friday when I had only one marking on the door identified. He questioned it being apotropaeic. However we both missed the burn marks, all seven of them, how I dont know as they were very obvious and under closer scrutiny there are two other inscribed marks too.

I have had some pictures taken by a good photographer who will hopefully not take to long to furnish me with them so I can post them.

 

[biffvernon]

Here are some more from Catterick Bridge:

 

[Ian Bond]

And some candle smoke marks on a Suffolk ceiling to be going on with...

 

[Jon Maine]

I get it now, B + V, This isnt just a bit of fun of you signing your initials in your youth??

They do however look nothing like any apotropaeic marks I have seen.

 

[Nemesis]

You have to wonder just what he was doing under that bridge though...

 

[Jon Maine]

Personally I think after leaving his initials, the rest must have been his girlfriends.

 

[Ian Bond]

Yes, the M joined with a upside-down A mark looks authentic.

As Jon says, the B and V look more recent. I suspect that just out of shot, to the right hand side of the picture it reads 'Woz 'Ere'.

 

[Jon Maine]

And some candle smoke marks on a Suffolk ceiling to be going on with...

Can you give me an idea of scale?

 

[Ian Bond]

Unfortunately not - I've only got this link.

http://www.oldhouses.com.au/docs/ritual.html#marks

 

[Jon Maine]

Looks interesting though.

 

[biffvernon]

Hey, behave yourselves. Once you guys have contributed something intelligent I'll update this page http://www.biffvernon.freeserve.co.uk/catterick.htm with the photos and appropriate commentary.
:wink: