Anyone knowledgeable on drain mortar?

[JoceAndChris]

It's pretty obscure, but the range of experience on here is so vast I thought I'd just ask.

I had the outside toilet drain fixed this week, the loo wasn't flushing well and the bath wasn't draining. I'm a bit shocked the bathwater and the toilet go into the same drain, but he said that's fine, and that as the drain is lower than the bath I'd never get sewage in my bath in the event of a blockage...

Anyway he cleared the blockage (£72) and fixed the drain with something he described as very very hard setting mortar (£96) I was pleased with the reasonable prices as it wasn't easy but alarm bells rang about the mortar- he said it sets so hard it's virtually impossible to break it off, ever, and the reason he was using it was because our old crumbly mortar had fallen into the drain so causing the blockage. I hope it isn't so hard it will now cause the drain to crack and sewage to seep? Because our well really isn't very far from that drain- maybe just 3 metres, and that's our drinking water. It's filtered with a state of the art system but still, can anyone reassure me that this mortar was the right thing to use?

He said the drain's old and not very good, I wonder if really we should have just had the whole thing replaced.

 

[Penners]

Joce - when you say he fixed "the outside toilet drain", I presume you're talking about a drain outside the house from the bath and loo inside the house?

Exactly where on the run of drainage did he fix it? And is it a 4-inch salt-glazed underground pipe that we're talking about?

 

[JoceAndChris]

Yes, outside, opposite the spare room window. There's a drain cover in the path there, he lifted that and mended the bit directly under the cover. It definitely leads into a salt glazed underground pipe, whether or not 4 inches I couldn't say, sorry.

A pic:

Oh, I'm aware my description is pretty vague. It strikes me that there are two things that can go wrong witha drain, one is blocking, which you know about, and the other is cracking and breaking up, and I don't see how you could know about that without digging up the whole run and having a look. What a worry.

 

[AMc]

You can have the drain inspected with CCTV which should give you a good idea of what sort of state the drain is in. No idea of the cost, it may be prohibitive but I've seen it advertised by Dynrod and their ilk on their vans.

 

[Penners]

OK, if it's the drain cover in the foreground of that picture, then it looks to me like a manhole. It's probably there because there's a change of direction of the pipes or a confluence of different waste outflows. So his repair was possibly to an open-top salt-glazed pipe that runs through the bottom of the tapered floor of the manhole.

A manhole should be watertight, and the entry/exit of the pipes than run through it should be well sealed into the structure. So if he's used a hard, cement-based mortar, then in my opinion he's probably done the right thing.

If you felt like lifting the cover and photographing his repair, we would know exactly what he's done. But I'll leave that decision to you! :x

If you do it, please be very careful - the iron lid is heavy.

 

[Feltwell]

I agree with Penners - if it's within that manhole that he's done the repair, then cement based mortar is the only thing I'd use. He may have used quick-set mortar - that does go particularly hard. Old mortar crumbling and dropping into the drain and blocking it is not uncommon.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Mr P and Feltwell have explained it so much better than I ever could. Thanks so much for the reassurance. It was indeed the quick setting mortar down there, and I'm relieved to hear that's what the PPUK gurus would have used and not lime in this instance.

I suppose a drain is a modern thing and so is best with modern methods.

No, I don't think I will lift the cover and photograph the repair. :lol: But I'll monitor the drainage, and if it starts getting all slow again, it's good to know cameras can go along the pipes without digging up the entire garden - thanks AMc.

 

[worms]

You can have the drain inspected with CCTV which should give you a good idea of what sort of state the drain is in. No idea of the cost, it may be prohibitive but I've seen it advertised by Dynrod and their ilk on their vans.

I believe that this is one of these areas where the insurance industry is our undoing. Because most drain works are claimed for under house insurance, the technology on offer and the range of expensive services available has grown considerably. If I was needing work done that I was going to be paying for myself, I would really shop around on this one and make it absolutely clear that it wasn't an insurance job.

 

[madworthy]

I believe that this is one of these areas where the insurance industry is our undoing. Because most drain works are claimed for under house insurance, the technology on offer and the range of expensive services available has grown considerably. If I was needing work done that I was going to be paying for myself, I would really shop around on this one and make it absolutely clear that it wasn't an insurance job.

You are right there. I had to get one of the well known firms in and they were trying to push a video drain survey, and not to worry if anything was found as it would be covered under our house insurance. I declined. I know I have tree root damage, but the problem was due to Dad flushing tea bags down the toilet :roll:

 

[stuart45]

It sounds like he may have repaired the benching inside the manhole. This often breaks up in time. Quick setting cement is used for convenience so the drains can be used almost immediately.

 

[middi]

A lot of drains built 19th early 20th C, were built with similar mortar that was used for for building the house- usually lime mortar-. This was especially so for the country cottages and the more remote areas of the countryside.
The better builders would have used hydraulic lime and hard fired bricks which achieved more robust drains and used salt glazed pipes for the main run. ( used a lot more in suburban areas)

If plastic, or hard cement, was available one thousand years ago we would have saved a lot of money to reconstruct badly built drains.

Using hard and longer lasting materials to repair drains ( as mentioned in previous posts) is the best way to go, the only concern is the condition of the rest of the " unrepaired" drain . Will it deteriorate or collapse in the near future ??.

As there is little scope for a person to crawl up the drain pipes, holding a torch, to have a good look , the obvious choise is to have a remote camera to do the work. Alternatively " keep calm and carry on ".

As it is beyond hunan capability to solve the problem by keeping ones legs crossed, try your fingers and hope that the drain holds fast . Whish you happy discharging days.

Middi

 

[JoceAndChris]

:lol: :lol: thanks Middi!

And for all the interesting info, many thanks.

 

[Flyfisher]

If plastic, or hard cement, was available one thousand years ago we would have saved a lot of money to reconstruct badly built drains.

Absolutely. Modern materials are not always the work of the devil and drainage systems are just one application where long runs of smooth, slippery almost everlasting pipework is far superior to short lengths of glazed earthenware with lots of joints.