Any tips for buffing up beeswax floor polish (oak floor).

[joechip]

Hi all, been in bed since Sunday with swine flu but on the mend now (but still very weak) and just thinking about a couple of things I need to get done in the not to distant future.

We have had an oak floor put in upstairs and it's had a couple of coats of beeswax but we were not too happy with the buffing as there are marks and scratches so we have asked to have the floor light sanded and another coat of wax and we will buff it outselves and take our time.

Has anyone got any tips of what to use for the buffing process that does a good job? Which type of cloths etc, or can something else be purchased online, ie lambswool mits or something you can stick on your feet even.

Thanks for any tips.

 

[JoceAndChris]

You know that a wax surface will always show marks and scratches? Maybe they're just characterful?

My husband's having a really hard time with that one, I think he thinks a wax floor should behave like a varnished floor and you should be able to spill hot cups of tea, drag the furniture about etc. In my (albeit limited) experience it doesn't work like that!

For buffing my floor I used a pack of soft yellow dusters. I rubbed and rubbed and rubbed and finally stuck dusters under my feet and skidded up and down for 2 days. To begin with, it looked good. Now, it's dry and unlustreful again, and the process needs repeating. I hoping after about 10 coats of wax it will get the look I want.

You can buy buffing machines, though experts say it's not as good as hand buffing. Good luck! Have you read Toby Newell's advice about wood? http://directory.periodproperty.co.uk/article/the_definitive_guide_to_wood_finishing.html

 

[Moo]

I suppose a lot of it depends on how much floor there is to buff, how much energy you are prepared to invest in the process, and how high your standards are.
We have moderately large expanses of floor to deal with, so my preferred method is to apply the wax (liquid traffic wax, for safety reasons), leave it overnight to dry (which also give me time to recover from the waxing) and then buff it up with a floor polisher. The lambswool pads got clogged with wax so quickly that I abandoned them and now rely on the brushes to do the business, which they do very effectively.
I don't do it nearly as often as I should - a couple of times a year, if I'm really honest, and then only when even I can't ignore the loss of lustre - but that way I get real job satisfaction because of the sensational difference between before and after.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I really don't think I'd get round to doing mine more than twice a year either, and I don't think that's low standards Moo! You have to be realistic about these things. I need that floor polisher!

 

[Moo]

I no longer own a floor polisher*, but am lucky enough to have lovely neighbours who let me borrow theirs.


* Actually, that's not absolutely true. Having restored the floors in son's house to a state of gleaming perfection, I left my polisher there in the faint hope that he might use it occasionally. Now he's let the place (to students :? :? :? :? ) so although I doubt whether it's ever been used, I don't feel I can ask for it back.

 

[Tom]

finally stuck dusters under my feet and skidded up and down for 2 days.

I don't suppose you fancy skidding up and down my beams for a few days, do you? My arms are beginning to ache!!...........Nah, didn't think so :wink:

Jaqy

 

[joechip]

Thanks for your replies and apologies for my late response. I do appreciate your input.

Speak soon and I 'will' get round to putting up the pictures soon of the project. Nothing as elaborate as some on here but it's been an interesting journey !

 

[JoceAndChris]

Please do post pics - I'm especially interested in floors just now.

Nothing as elaborate as some on here but it's been an interesting journey !

It's not a competition. And if it is, Jon Maine won it ages ago and the rest of us just rub along, doing what we can to the best of our ability, understanding, and budget, as I'm sure you have too.

 

[Juju]

I've now turned my attention to flooring. I'd intended to use Osmo polyx oil but it only comes in clear finish I think and our floorboards are boring modern pine ones and I think we need to darken them a bit. The carpenter who is crafting some lovely oak thresholds to the doorways thought I should wax the floor but having read this thread I'm not sure - it seems a lot of hard work! Is it enough to put a wood dye or a stain on the floorboards or should they have wax or varnish on top? What about the Osmo hard wax oil - is that a good alternative to wax or varnish? I guess we need something hard wearing for the hallway as we are straight on to the pavement so all manner of dirt and stones come in. In my old house I used some Swedish varnish (forgotten the name) but that was on lovely Victorian boards - but it wouldn't be right for this house being much older.
Juju

 

[JoceAndChris]

There are so many ways, and everyone has a preferred method for their lifestyle and floor type.

If you like darker floorboards, I'd stain them. Beware of the bog standard stains in DIY chains - the colours can be really violent. Brown Mahogany, a water stain by Manns, available at http://www.wood-finishes-direct.com is a colour I like a lot - you can see it in this picture:

If you like an easy life, I'd put Osmo Polyx or the hard wearing stuff on top of stain. For me, the finish lacks the rich character that waxing gives. But waxing is hard work and needs to be renewed yearly, at least. You'll need something other than just stain on them or they'll look terribly dry. Another option is a coloured wax, which avoids the need to stain. But many think it's not as long-lasting and deeply penetating as stain + wax. Have I lost you yet?

I've recently used the Osmo Polyx matt and been extremely disappointed, it's barely there. There's a satin finish too with th Osmo which others on here have liked a lot- I've not used it.

In brief - 1) sand or deep clean to remove all traces of product. 2)Stain 3) wax, varnish or Osmo- you'll need a few coats of whatever, but by using a varnish or Osmo you'll skip out the buffing. Osmo is breathable (I think) and Ronseal-type varnish isn't- can anyone confirm or deny?

Whichever you do, pics please!

 

[Penners]

Is it enough to put a wood dye or a stain on the floorboards or should they have wax or varnish on top?

You could just stain the boards if you liked the look of them that way (although I don't think you would). But be sure to wipe over the stain with clean cotton cloth before it's dry, to remove any surplus that remains on the surface. This process will also enhance the look of the grain.

But you'll undoubtedly find that the stain will wear away quite rapidly in high traffic areas, and your floor will then look horrible! Far better to put a durable finish over the top of the stain. Joce's comments on natural wax and Osmo Polyx (which I've heard good reports of, but never used myself) give you a very useful insight into the respective merits of those products. I'm a Johnsons Traffic Wax man myself, although this isn't a purely natural product.

 

[JoceAndChris]

http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9980&p=115337&hilit=liberon#p115337

This thread gives an interesting range of responses on the different approaches of finishing floors, though it comes with a warning that after 57 varieties of advice you may end up more confused than ever!

 

[Juju]

Thanks for advice. I think we will stain the floorboards and then put a finish - yet to be decided - on the top - being a hallway floor it's got to be hardwearing. I've already got a headache reading about all the different products! We'll get the floorboards cleaned, lightly sanded and then make a decision... Here are the before pics - the floorboards are mostly modern but the door step boards look older (or maybe that's just cos they're dirtier!) and there are a few random bits of old oak boards under the door frames. We're having oak thresholds fitted on the entrance to the living room and at the arch down to the back part of the house. Once the floor's been sorted, then I can get on the acres of woodwork to be painted! I assume one paints skirtings etc after doing the floor? I did it the other way round in my previous house. I guess there's pros and cons whichever order you do it in.

 

[JoceAndChris]

They'll come up a treat once cleaned, darkened and shone. I would do your skirtings before, unless you have a very steady hand.

I did 2 coats before, taking the colour all the way down to the floor (but using a 1 inch brush and being really careful not to hit the floorboards, then when the floor was completed I went round the skirtings with a third coat to touch up, but it wasn't necessary to take the brush all the way down to the floorboards, if that makes sense.

 

[Moo]

Your skirting boards may be much better fitted than mine, of course, but I usually find that there's enough clearance between the bottom of the skirting and the floor to enable a sheet of newspaper to be inserted. And where it's too tight a fit, there's always good old masking tape.

I think that in your place I'd get the floor done first. If you're going to sand it, however lightly, there's always a danger of damaging the skirting, which would be heartbreaking if you've just spent ages doing the painting.

 

[Toby Newell]

Juju: your boards are pine, very recent, 20 years or so. Waterbased finish (100% polyurethane not acrylic) for wear, looks same as oil finish in matt version except much more durable and more environmentally friendly. Oil finish, OSMO OIL ETC.. medium durability but not great not so environmentally friendly as water based as 50% solvent as opposed to less than 6%. There is a product called Blanchon Wood oil Environment which is novel as it is an oil finish in a water based solvent emulsion, don't how the hell they do it, check out their website and give Jeane Phillipe a call, their UK rep, he's very helpful. Remember any oil will need a monthly mop with wood soap and yearly or bi yearly recoats. Hope this helps.

As regards to all the other stuff, please don't stain an old oak floor isn't it a beautiful enough colour already? If it's a new one they look good if they are stained to age them (i.e stained to a colour they would go naturally) look at my pieces in the finding out section or whatever its called now (type my name in) dye the wood, don't put a horrible pigmented stain or pigmented oil finish on it! you lose all the clarity, they were inly invented for ease of use.

 

[Juju]

Thanks for more advice - still haven't finally decided whether to paint woodwork before or after doing the floor. Pros and cons to both... Yes there is space for putting newspaper under the skirting for painting - I've used that trick before!
Toby - I always thought Osmo was reasonably environmentally-friendly? I'll check out the new product you recommend. By the way, we only have about 3 partial bits of oak board in the hall and we have no intention of touching them other than cleaning/very light sanding. We want the modern pine boards to match the oak ones hence our thoughts about staining the modern ones a more 'oak' colour - the modern pine just doesn't suit a 300 yr old house with oak beams everywhere. I just wish we had more oak floorboards to expose in the house - I think there are some in our attic bedroom but we won't take up the carpet there as the room is just so cold. I hate carpet but we need it in that room!
Juju

 

[Toby Newell]

Hi again

No your boards are quite new problem is they are never going to look like aged oak, perhaps (my opinion) it would be better to have nicley finished newer pine boards left for all to see what they are rather than badly stained 'fake' oak coloured boards which may look naff. Pine stains very poorly you see and I for one would try and talk the client out of matching them. I can do it but it's quite tricky even for me! Perhaps a weak van dyke crystal with a dash of washing soda or ammonia solution could be applied to 'age' the pine boards followed by a seal with shellac and then any finish of your choice except oil finish. (if using oil then omit the shellac seal, oil is quite orange so will give the same colour cast) pls see my other recent (monster) post and my website for details of environmental details, oil solids are from natural sources but so are oils from varnish, arable crops from water based finishes, problem is solvent, lots of it. Until they crack that they are just NOT very green, just easy to market and trick people with! I mean my local Tesco's has a photovoltaic roof, ooo are they green then? Hmmm, I don't think their relentless price pressure on farmers and suppliers really fosters the kind of responsible growing/producing that some would expect, but some people's consciences are obviously appeased by the shiny solar panels, it all depends how much you would like to think or not think. The planet still chokes, the water still rises, the rich still produce, we still consume, except that now 'green marketing' is big business, multi trillion dollar business. Don't worry they say, buy this car/finish/oil company! as the water rises over your head, it's all green honest......

Toby

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Quite a good overview of the subject here:
http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/woodgrain/woodgrain.htm

From the limited evidence available it seems that floor boards were either stained or scrubbed. John Wood, the architect of Georgian Bath, describes the floors of older houses coloured brown ‘with soot and small beer to hide the dirt’. One contemporary author, Hannah Glass in 1760 instructs the housemaid to first strew handfuls of damp sand over the floor before sweeping it to gather the dust, then scrubbing the boards with the herbs ‘tanzy, mint and balm’ to make them ‘look like mahogony’ and to make the room smell nice. In some houses the floorboards may have been limewashed to keep them looking clean and fresh.

In the early 19th century, fine hardwoods began to be used much more widely. Interior doors of varnished timber became fashionable in the Regency period, and as the century progressed, the use of varnish extended to toilet seats and the panelling around baths, timber staircase balustrades, shop fronts and, perhaps most commonly, flooring. Polished parquet flooring, which had first appeared in the 17th century, became common again. Floorboards of hardwood can also be found, but pine boarding predominated, usually coated with a layer of stained oil varnish where not hidden by the floor covering to resemble mahogany or other more expensive hardwoods.

 

[Toby Newell]

Gareth!!! Haha. You have managed to quote the only erroneous and not generally well documented part of an otherwise excellent little article which otherwise is pretty much spot on! The rest of the article is great but the part you quoted is just a bit of fun! Chippendale was mid 18th century and I am sure he and Robert Adam (still before the start of the C19th) would have a thing or two to say to you about timber doors being varnished and fashionable!!! Also the part about regency period is a little erroneous too, infact more wood was being lacquered and painted at that time, quite the reverse of your isolated source. The regency period was characterised by very expensive hardwoods like Rosewood, Zebrano, Purple Heart etc and as only smaller specemins were able to be harvested a lot of these woods were used as veneers, also because of the rarity and expense a lot of staining and graining was undertaken to turn pine and other woods into Rosewood for example.

Funnily enough you can still see today where polishers have coloured mahogany to resemble rosewood, the pigments fade but the lamp black (made from burning a candle and collecting the soot) is so long lasting (pure carbon) that you can still see the lines where they picked out the grain. The East India company was in full swing by that time and importing many items from China and the East. Chippendale started the ball rolling with his 'Chinoiseie' styles in the 1750's and 60's and this continued into the Regency period where a lot of the wood work including doors were lacquered 'Chinese style' so I would think probably less doors and interior wood work was naturally finished in the Regancy period than the late Georgian period. Infact there was quite a lot of varnishing and shellacking going on in the Queen Anne Period oh and let's not even start talking about the French! I think there was a teeny little bit of polished/varnished wood going on in er Versailles around the 1670's have you actually SEEN any French furniture of the time??? You would need welding goggles on a sunny day to look at them! Monsieur Quatorze like shiny things and he was quite the pace setter at the time, eventually all the French court followed his lead and soon after the English did, I mean we weren't about to be outshone by the French now were we? Sorry to be a party pooper but the bit you quoted is a little misleading, funny thing is, it's the only bit!

Yours in fun, Toby.