Any advice on getting this stuff off the wall?

[tycarregydwr]

It's a c.1900 Welsh house, stone walls. In the living room, the exterior of the wall has been cement-pebble-dashed and the interior has been err, I think cement rendered with a gypsum skim. I can see the stone at the top (suspended ceiling removed and I can see where the 1st fl wooden joists go into the stone wall), then a layer of grey, what I guess is cement, about 1-2" thick, then a thin pink skim over that. The pink stuff if fairly easy to knock off the grey stuff but I had a go at bashing the grey stuff and nothing comes off.
We had a quote from a conservation builder to remove it all and redo it in lime but we can't afford it at the moment.
There is no immediate evidence that the wall is wet inside, but we want to take the interior render off and see how the stone is doing. The cement will eventually come off the outside, but without a pressing need, it's going to be at least a few years. But in the meantime I want to get it off the inside if I can. But how? Is it going to be power tools?

 

[JohnB]

One of these http://www.screwfix.com/p/bosch-2kg-sds-plus-drill-gbh2000-240v/87453, and one of these http://www.screwfix.com/p/bosch-sds-spade-chisel-250-x-40mm/52090. You'll also need ear defenders, eye protection, dust mask and gloves. And a shovel and wheelbarrow to cart it all away! Don't buy cheap equipment. I've been there, done that, and broken it! Despite giving my Bosch a good battering it shows no sign of letting me down. The chisel will break eventually, but mine lasted a long time.

It's great fun, but don't rush it. Do a bit at a time otherwise your fingers start vibrating, and it's not good for them. My house is mid 19th century with earth mortar, and stands up to the battering with no problem.

You might make some interesting discoveries, as I am! I think my record thickness of cement is 2.5 inches inside! This is it, although it's not very clear! It's so thick because the previous owner who covered it in cement filled in an alcove with very rough stonework!

 

[tycarregydwr]

Thank you. I might be able to borrow one. I guess I could also consider asking my other (not conservation) builder how much he would want to take the stuff off for me, and then deal with re-doing it myself... It's tricky as this is our main living space so I'd rather not have this be a project that goes on and on in pieces (the removal, anyway) or we will have no where to be!

 

[Zebra]

Just a thought, but if you were paying a contractor to remove render internally, you might want to consider paying him on a day rate rather than asking for an overall price for the whole thing. That way he can afford to take his time and not try to bash through it as fast as he can, damaging the stone. So you don't end up with an open-ended cost, you could agree say that he sees how much he can get done in three days, or a week, or whatever. Just a thought. Or start doing a bit yourself first, and see how long you reckon it would take to do it properly. Bet you end up doing the lot! It's the sort of thing you can do over a few weekends, rather than all at once. And even if you bought yourself one of those drills, compare the cost to what it would be to get someone else to do it for you!
I used the tools JohnB described, but also used one of these http://www.ac-one.co.uk/ck-scutch-chisel-38mm-1683-p.asp and a hammer, to carefully tease away at any fragile bits by hand. Slower, but gentler.

 

[JohnB]

Until you try, you won't know how difficult it is. I find it comes off quite easily where there's the original earth mortar, but it's much harder where alterations have been made using cement mortar. So you may find it doesn't take too long. Could two of you do it, taking it in turns? You'll find it makes a lot of dust, so you want the room empty. You need to develop the right technique. I mostly just hit it square on with the chisel, but sometimes I can get behind it and a big sheet will come off! Watch out for any lintels over windows, doors and fireplaces, as mine are quite soft brick, and got damaged before I realised they were there.

Outside, most of the render was almost blown, and came off easily, except where there's cement mortar.

Of course I can't guarantee what works on my house will work on yours!

 

[JohnB]

This is mine partly done. You could clear up the dust and use the room in between sessions, but it would need quite a bit of cleaning, and you'd probably get lots of dust and bits of lime or earth coming off the walls. Then you'd have to clean it again after the next session! But you could probably put the main bits of furniture back for a while while it's unfinished, if you're not too fussy!

If I didn't still have more of mine to do, I might even offer you a bargain rate for doing it .

 

[tycarregydwr]

Thank you - Zebra that's a good idea.

JohnB - if you fancy a small job let me know! What are you going to do with your wall once you're done? We're not sure what kind of stone this wall will be underneath. Another wall was exposed by the previous owners, it is an internal wall of apparently an interesting construction - a slate stud wall I think our builder said? A very neatly constructed slate wall. The rear exterior wall is not rendered, it is stone, not 'random rubble' but not dressed either. Late Victorian slightly posh middle-class.

The exterior render seems surprisingly sound as judged by two 'conventional' builders and two conservation builders, so although it's hideous, it's staying put for the time being until we have a lot more money and a lot more of the other things are done.

I will ask around about borrowing a tool so we can have an experiment and see how it goes.

 

[JohnB]

I'm not sure what my stone is called. It's kind of slatey, and splits into smaller pieces. I've knocked a few bits off with the chisel, but not enough to do any harm, especially compared to what's been done to it in the past! At the moment I'm just working in a thin layer of lime plaster by hand (wearing rubber gloves!), and it will be limewashed. The aim is to give the impression of years of limewashing on bare stone, and I was taught how to do it by Gill the conservation builder I put you on to. It lowers the status of the house, but my aim is to minimise the materials I use, and most people who've seen what has been done so far like it. It also means I haven't wasted much material if it ends up having internal insulation in the future. I'll be doing the same on the outside eventually, for the same reasons.

I think my external walls were limewashed stone originally. It looks like it from the part that's in the roof of the late 1960s extension, that replaced an earlier extension, although virtually all of it has gone and it's now bare stone.

You're welcome to have a look and see how it compares to yours, if you're around the Newcastle Emlyn area some time.

 

[tycarregydwr]

I may take you up on that if I get up there, it sounds like it's not that dissimilar to ours. Why would your plan minimise the status of your house?

 

[JohnB]

I may take you up on that if I get up there, it sounds like it's not that dissimilar to ours. Why would your plan minimise the status of your house?

Just send me a PM if you're coming, and we'll arrange something.

The original lime plaster, where it survives, is fairly thick and fairly flat, but nowhere near as flat and boring as modern plasterers get it! I think only people lower down the social scale would have just limewashed their bare stone, which is the effect I'm trying to create. But I'm not doing a restoration, I'm trying to save the planet by making it sustainable in the lowest impact way that I can.

 

[CliffordPope]

I'm trying to save the planet by making it sustainable in the lowest impact way that I can.

Wouldn't that be by just leaving it alone, if it isn't causing any problems and the wall is not damp?

 

[JohnB]

I'm trying to save the planet by making it sustainable in the lowest impact way that I can.

Wouldn't that be by just leaving it alone, if it isn't causing any problems and the wall is not damp?

The walls are damp in places. The room I'm doing at the moment definitely needed attention. In other places I've found some rotten timber buried in the wall. There's also a doorway that had a broken concrete lintel, that I had rebuilt, but by taking the outside render off I've discovered one side of the opening is exactly in line with an upstairs opening that was blocked up, possibly no later than the early 20th century. The weight of the wall above the doorway is taken by the lintel, so it could break again one day. This opening must have been made in the late 1960s by the guy who did all the drastic alterations. I've seen enough to know that it all needs to come off to see what other horrors I find! But I agree that doing nothing is the lowest impact option where practical, and that includes leaving the plastic windows in.

 

[tycarregydwr]

Really interesting points raised. Particularly as our walls are not current showing signs of damp (though there is evidence of a problem in the past). Out other thought on this matter is that if changing the wall helps to keep it warmer then obviously we would spend less heating it which would reduce our impact. If we had plastic windows then window replacement would be much further down the priority list. As it is, not only are our single-glazed with poorly fitted secondary glazing aluminum windows hideous, they're also cold and draughty...