Advice: painting front door

[quad121]

Hi all

Could you please give me some advice on painting the front door. At the moment there are small cracks appearing where the door sections meet.
I was going to rub the remaining gloss paint down with sand paper. What should I use on the small cracks? Wood filler? Painters colk?

Any advice would be most appreciated

Paul

 

[88v8]

They always crack at the joins. Sometimes there are a couple of joints that don't, but generally after a year or three that's what they do.
If the door is south-facing it will crack sooner because of the sun. If it is painted a dark colour and south or east facing it will crack even sooner because of thermal gain.
If it's warped it will crack because of the twist as it's shut.
If it doesn't shut easily and gets slammed, ditto.
If it sticks in the winter, that's another problem. Before you start, look at the door edge, see if it's been rubbing. With another three coats of paint it will rub even more, so fix any problems before you start.

Scrape any old filler/paint out of the cracks to give some width. A hairline crack is hard to fill.
Externally I use Woodflex Pollyfilla.
Or linseed putty, well rubbed in with the thumb.
Or if it's rotted, that Ronseal two-pack stuff.

Clean with sugar soap and allow to dry thoroughly.
Sand with 120 paper, getting well into the joins and angles.

Paintwise, I'm moving to linseed for its flexibility and longevity
http://www.linseedpaintcompany.co.uk/
or Allback
http://serefni.is/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Lilla-Handboken-ENG.pdf

But linseed has drawbacks, not least the loooong drying time, and it has no gloss.

So I still have my tins of Sikkens AZ Rubbol, which for my money is the best oil paint available.
http://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/viewprod/s/SIKAZ/
Not cheap, but no point stinting on materials.

Prime any filler.
http://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/viewprod/s/SIKONOL/
Remove all door furniture/locks.
Undercoat the whole door.
Two gloss* coats.
Rub down gently with 200 paper between coats. That will give a really good finish.

If using gloss, don't paint in direct sunlight or when the door is hot. Otherwise it will bubble. A south-facing door can be a right pain to paint.

Paint the top, and if possible the bottom of the door. This will minimise seasonal shrinkage. You may find the top has never been painted. Always lazy painters in the world.

Colourwise, the edge of the lock stile should match the internal colour. The edge of the hinge stile should match the external colour.

Buy good brushes. Cheap brushes drop bristles. You don't want bristles on your front door, that visitors stand and stare at. The front door says a lot about your house. Think of it as your butler.

Ivor

*gloss is not at all 'period'. If you want the peirod look - eggshell, although it's not as durable outdoors. Or you could use a 50/50 mix of gloss and satin, which has a less glossy finish.

 

[quad121]

A very big thank you to you Ivor

Very much appreciated

 

[plasticpigeon]

I agree with Ivor. One more thing to say is that if it is a panel door, there is a way to paint these properly. It makes sense one you've started. The idea is to get the brush strokes to always follow the grain. So for example with a 4 panel door, do the top 2 panels first, then the mullion/upright between the panels. Then the top rail as you can follow the grain and go across any paint that crossed the joint with the central upright. Then do the bottom 2 panels and the upright between. Then the central rail (horizontal piece) between the upper and lower panels going over any paint that has gone over the joint line when painting the upright between the two panels, then the bottom rail, and then finish off by doing the two stiles either side. That way all the joins between the various panels and members will be painted neatly following the grain. It is definitely worth filling gaps, particularly if you think rain may get in anywhere, as this would make the wood swell locally and damage the paintwork in that area.

 

[MatthewC]

Ivor

Further to your very useful post above, can you offer any similar advice for surface treatment of sash windows? I have just removed the first of a pair and they both need complete renovation with new cords, pulleys and latches, and removal of all paint and putty. I think they have been installed for 150 years or so.

I would have followed your advice and used linseed paint but I cannot see how I can do that when I have a large hole in the nedroom wall! Hence my intention is to re-prime with aluminium primer, then undercoat (Dulux Weathershield Trade white) and two top coats of Dulux Weathershield satin finish. Then I will use traditional linseed putty and, hopefully, replace the original wavy glass where it's not already broken.

Three questions:

1.If I treat any part with wood hardener, will that affect any of these surface finishes?
2. I think I saw on here that it is OK to prime where I apply the putty - do you agree?
3. Is it advisable to leave the wood untreated where it rubs? This is how I found it (definitely not worn away).

Thanks for any advice

Matthew

.

 

[88v8]

1 No. Wood hardener is good. I used it 36 years ago on a rotten sill, next time I painted that window 32 years later it was still fine.
2 The rebates must be primed and dried before applying putty. The putty itself will need to skin before it is primed, in this weather perhaps 14 days.
3 I think most sashes were primed after installation. Easier, cheaper, bodgers always with us. So they were painted only where accessible. When we had new sashes made, 36 years ago, I primed everything disassembled, then when dry I hung them. I undercoated and glossed the side of the boxes where the sashes run, but only as far up as the top of the pocket door, and as far down as the bottom of the pulleys.
Then when everything was dry I took the sashes out again and rubbed the running surfaces with candle wax. I think if one glosses all the running surfaces they will be inclined to stick.

Removal of the sashes - which were blooming heavy because they were hardwood and double-glazed** - was greatly facilitated because instead of sash cord, I used sash chain. This I highly recommend. It runs easily and will never break, and it can be unhooked very easily from the weights, to remove the sashes. Future painting is much easier if one can remove the sashes.
https://www.reddiseals.com/product/sash-chain/?creative=57808626769&matchtype=b&keyword=window%20sash%20chain&gclid=CMma5vz1_swCFdYK0wodYG4GFQ

One also needs matching flat pulleys. These all appear to be flat.
http://www.draftfix.co.uk/ecom-catshow/sash_pullies.html?gclid=CLWl_sn2_swCFQ2eGwodrGAH3Q

One might imagine that sash chain is modern. Not so. I recall ... Hampton Court Palace.......
One rarely sees it because cord was cheaper.
In the mass market Cheap usually wins. Aldi. Nothing new.

Sikkens AZ knocks spots off Dulux. I see they have now trumped it with Sikkens XD. Glad to have found that as I was going to order some AZ on Tuesday, now I'll order XD instead.
http://www.decoratingwarehouse.co.uk/buy/woodstains/sikkens-woodstains/sikkens-rubbol-xd-gloss/1322

Regardless, of make, Satin is not durable externally.
But there is a Sikkens Satin, if you must.
http://www.decoratingwarehouse.co.uk/buy/woodstains/sikkens-woodstains/sikkens-rubbol-bl-satura/1317
However, it's water-based, and even Sikkens make no claims as to its durability.

Ivor

**1000 x hail Mary, but the windows we removed were newish anyway

 

[TheRoost]

You had me worried for a moment there Ivor, as I had Sikkens Satin exterior paint on my 'buy list' for doing the facia boards and metal gutters, and was sure it was Oil based.

There is actually a 'Plus' version of Sikkens Rubbol Satura "Satin" which is oil based (phew) and is capable of a five year maintenance cycle. http://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/viewprod/s/SIKSAT/

Totally agree with Ivor, there are much better products available than Dulux Weathershield. I recently invested in some superb Purdy brushes instead of buying the relatively expensive premium brushes found in DIY stores, that don't last that long. I guard my Purdy's with my life

 

[JBean]

Ivor, can I just nip in and ask about 'wood hardener'?

We have several window frames and doors where parts of the wood are rotten as result of ineffective beading, but the glass and most of the frame is still fine. (They are not original to our Edwardian house, but we'd still rather repair than rip out and replace otherwise sound wooden windows.)

We were imagining patching in new wood and are not sure our woodworking skills are up to it, so I was struck by your passing reference to wood hardener for rotten sills. Can you explain a bit more please?

 

[88v8]

It's a very liquid one-part resin.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ronseal-WRWH250-250ml-Wet-Rot-Wood-Hardener-/222133464959?hash=item33b82faf7f:g:5EgAAOSwUfNXSu79
Pour it in/onto rotten wood, and it will set and consolidate the wood.

Remove the worst of the softened wood first.
Area should be dry so the resin can soak in - I realise this can be awkward. Might need to shroud the window in plastic. Or wait until summer.
In a deep hole it needs a day or two to cure fully.
I used this stuff to rescue a very beetled/rotted pair of Georgian coach-house doors.

There used to be Ronseal anti-rot tablets that one could embed in the wood to inhibit further rotting. Not sure if still available. Perhaps they were daaaaangerous :shock:

Anyway, finish with this stuff
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New-Ronseal-White-Wood-Filler-550g-/322128435169?hash=item4b0059d7e1:gKUAAOSwyQtVhYmC
and paint with a decent paint system - see door-painting thread - and it should last well.

Any beading should be primed before fitting, then top-coated with oil gloss and messily fitted while wet.
Stainless pins, no rust.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50mm-65mm-LOST-HEAD-NAILS-Stainless-Steel-Nails-/331238281523?var=&hash=item4d1f571133

Ivor

 

[wobs]

Paintwise, I'm moving to linseed for its flexibility and longevity
http://www.linseedpaintcompany.co.uk/
or Allback
http://serefni.is/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Lilla-Handboken-ENG.pdf

But linseed has drawbacks, not least the loooong drying time, and it has no gloss.

LPC paint does give a gloss finish. Currently using it on our windows and have done our front door in this (on the outside). Drying time is shorter than normal linseed paints, but still more than gloss.

Allback (and I assume Histocolour) give, as you say a non-gloss finish. Although I have found differing results depending on the colour. The cream I used was fairly silk, but the red was more matt.

It is a different technique you need with linseed paint compared with gloss, and I have yet to meet a tradesman who would (or has) used it, so its a DIY job.

 

[Roger H]

I was under the impression that linseed shouldn't be used in conjunction with double glazed units - probably not the paint, but certainly not for bedding in, or puttying the glass...

I was intending to use a mastic, trimmed to a fillet.

 

[wobs]

I was under the impression that linseed shouldn't be used in conjunction with double glazed units - probably not the paint, but certainly not for bedding in, or puttying the glass...

I was intending to use a mastic, trimmed to a fillet.

I think it was this forum where I learned that one should apply shellac (knot sealer) on the double glaze unit edges, to prevent the linseed paint from attacking the seal. I've done this on my old house, and it still looks ok, with no signs of seal failure (about 4-5 years ago).

 

[plasticpigeon]

I was under the impression that linseed shouldn't be used in conjunction with double glazed units - probably not the paint, but certainly not for bedding in, or puttying the glass...

I was intending to use a mastic, trimmed to a fillet.

I believe it is ok to use butyl putty as this stays more flexible (so doesn't tear the seals when bits of the windows change shape with temperature) and it doesn't react badly with the seals either. I think it is ok to linseed putty the front bead but not to bed the glass in. Slimlite and other slim double glazing manufacturers seem to advocate this approach anyway.

 

[88v8]

I believe one can also use metal casement putty, but it's hard to find now.

Interesting that the LPC paint is semi-gloss.
The black Allback on the garage doors is drying matt, or at least dead flat. It's taking weeks and weeks. Probably I laid it on too thick.

In the course of starting to fill up the garage shelving this week we've been emptying boxes that have been in store nearly five years, and in there I've found a large stache of Sikkens AZ that I'd totally forgotten. I think it was when the EU started interfering with solvent levels and I quickly bought a 'life-time supply' of the good stuff. I have about a dozen tins. So linseed on the rest of the house may be indefinitely postponed. With the exception of the timber frame which definitely needs something flexible/breathable.

Ivor