Hello!
I've spent the past couple of days lurking here & reading through various posts before summoning up the courage to ask a question (or two!) that hopefully you can all help with.
The background is this - we're first time buyers who have recently had an offer accepted on a one-storey converted chapel in the Pennines (North-East England). It was built in 1800 - on the site of an earlier building - with a one room extension added in 1848 and was given Grade II listed status in the mid-eighties. In 1948 it was converted to a house by means of dividing up the main chapel area with stud walls so the basic shape of the house is a big rectangle which has been divided up by means of the original entry corridor which runs vertically up to the middle of the house (with a small room on either side), then a corridor running lengthways across the middle of the house with the kitchen and bathroom on the other side of this corridor.
The chapel has been built into the hillside - so that you have to walk up several steps to get to the front door. These have earth on either side with well matured shrubs planted in it. The one-room extension also has a front door and because the previous owner was disabled, a concrete ramp runs up the side of the house to reach it. There is no earth banked up on the sides of the building although a drainage ditch runs close to it on one side. The earth at the back of the house has been dug away in order to create a paved yard.
When you enter by the main (original chapel) door there is a small corridor and then several steps up to the main part of the house. I'm guessing that this is basically because you're walking up the hill!
Anyway, once the initial euphoria of actually having an offer accepted had worn down a little I tried to do the sensible thing and commissioned a full structural survey from a RIC's accredited surveyor with experience in dealing with listed buildings in the area and who has also done a lot of work for the National Trust.
The surveyor called me yesterday to tell me that there were some issues with the building. The main one being damp - several kinds of damp...
The first kind of damp is (apparently) rising damp due to the following:
1. The floor cavity in the two front rooms on either side of the main chapel entrance. The Surveyor said that this was quite a large cavity and that the floor timbers and batons (excuse me if I get the terms wrong by the way - this is all very new to me) were all damp and would need to be replaced. He suggested that the best thing to do would be to strip out the whole floor of the building, put down a membrane and then concrete over it before replacing the floor timbers and boards.
2. Externally modern render and masonry paint has been applied to the building exterior (he suspects to try to prevent damp from infiltrating) and so he suggested that we remove this, repoint the building with lime and limewash the walls.
3. The fact that the inside walls are panelled (done in the past 30 years I think as it's that yellow pine so beloved of the 80's) with wallpaper above it. Again, he suggests ripping out the plaster adding some kind of insulating panel which will also prevent damp from entering and replastering with lime.
The second kind of damp comes from the roof. The Surveyor suggested that this was probably due to the following
1. Guttering and flashing needing to be replaced/repaired.
2. Problem where the extension meets the main building (the extension is slightly lower than the main building
3. Chimney and spiret needing to be repointed
4. Missing/loose slates and the fact that some of the lower slates have been stuck on with mastick.
Apparently some of the roof timbers are also quite wet and will need to be replaced but in the main the roof is ok. He also mentioned something about the original panelling being in the loft and this apparently goes down to the lower storey (main part of the building) which could be sending moisture down? At first I had grandiose dreams of some carved oak panelling being hidden behind the wallpaper but I don't think he meant that!
Anyway (and sorry for such a long post) - here's my problem.
We aren't rich and our original aim for the property was to spend what we had doing the following
1. Replacing the central heating system (currently oil) with a wood burner in the main living room (there is a boarded up fireplace and chimney), putting a raeburn in the kitchen and (cost allowing) adding a ground source heat pump as well to run the central heating.
2. Rewiring the property.
3. Ripping out the stud walls of the two small rooms on either side of the main entrance to make an open plan living space (this would also lighten up the dark corridor)
4. Converting the roof space into 2 bedrooms and a bathroom and turning the current bathroom into a utility room.
The surveyor knew that we were planning on the above from our initial chat. However during our second conversation - when he told us of the issues; I asked him for a ballpark figure for sorting it all out and he came back with 100k to do it all. Now I know that materials are expensive. I know that labour is expensive. I know that a ground source heat pump system isn't cheap and neither is a proper loft extension but we'd reckoned that they would cost us about 60k to do properly which means that the cost of sorting out the damp problem.repointing/replastering etc at 40k seems quite high, especially as it's not the largest house in the world (110m). Am I existing is cloud cuckoo land by thinking this?
My second question concerns the question of rising damp. (I have read several conflicting reports on whether or not there is such a thing btw but don't feel qualified to make a decision!)
I know very little about renovation or housebuilding etc and he is the experienced surveyor but I don't think the house is damp - despite it having been empty for a while it didn't feel damp, there was no condensation that I could see anywhere, no black mould in the bathroom or kitchen and although there was a little bit of peeling paper in the two reception rooms. I didnt' get to see the underfloor cavity or the roof so I can't comment on those but my gut feel was that there wasn't any damp.
I think that he's probably quite right about removing the masonry paint/render and also the internal plaster etc but I'm not convinced about the membrane/cement solution - am I daft for thinking that an equally viable solution (once the paint/plaster etc has been removed and the building has had a few months and hopefully dried out a little) would be to replace the hung timber floor where necessary and hope that a decent heating system and the updraught from the re-opened chimneys would go a long way towards solving the problem? (or at least minimise it to a point where it's liveable?). Or would you recommend limecrete floor and if so, would the large underfloor cavity prevent this?
I was also wondering if removing the concrete ramp at the front of the house and digging out at the front where the earth pushes against the walls might be a good idea to? i seem to remember years ago my parents doing similar with a property they were renovating.
Anyway - sorry for a long post but if any of you have any thoughts on this I'd be very grateful to hear them before we potentially make a massive mistake (although I have to admit my gut feeling is that this isn't as big a problem as the surveyor seems to be making it)
thank you
H
I've spent the past couple of days lurking here & reading through various posts before summoning up the courage to ask a question (or two!) that hopefully you can all help with.
The background is this - we're first time buyers who have recently had an offer accepted on a one-storey converted chapel in the Pennines (North-East England). It was built in 1800 - on the site of an earlier building - with a one room extension added in 1848 and was given Grade II listed status in the mid-eighties. In 1948 it was converted to a house by means of dividing up the main chapel area with stud walls so the basic shape of the house is a big rectangle which has been divided up by means of the original entry corridor which runs vertically up to the middle of the house (with a small room on either side), then a corridor running lengthways across the middle of the house with the kitchen and bathroom on the other side of this corridor.
The chapel has been built into the hillside - so that you have to walk up several steps to get to the front door. These have earth on either side with well matured shrubs planted in it. The one-room extension also has a front door and because the previous owner was disabled, a concrete ramp runs up the side of the house to reach it. There is no earth banked up on the sides of the building although a drainage ditch runs close to it on one side. The earth at the back of the house has been dug away in order to create a paved yard.
When you enter by the main (original chapel) door there is a small corridor and then several steps up to the main part of the house. I'm guessing that this is basically because you're walking up the hill!
Anyway, once the initial euphoria of actually having an offer accepted had worn down a little I tried to do the sensible thing and commissioned a full structural survey from a RIC's accredited surveyor with experience in dealing with listed buildings in the area and who has also done a lot of work for the National Trust.
The surveyor called me yesterday to tell me that there were some issues with the building. The main one being damp - several kinds of damp...
The first kind of damp is (apparently) rising damp due to the following:
1. The floor cavity in the two front rooms on either side of the main chapel entrance. The Surveyor said that this was quite a large cavity and that the floor timbers and batons (excuse me if I get the terms wrong by the way - this is all very new to me) were all damp and would need to be replaced. He suggested that the best thing to do would be to strip out the whole floor of the building, put down a membrane and then concrete over it before replacing the floor timbers and boards.
2. Externally modern render and masonry paint has been applied to the building exterior (he suspects to try to prevent damp from infiltrating) and so he suggested that we remove this, repoint the building with lime and limewash the walls.
3. The fact that the inside walls are panelled (done in the past 30 years I think as it's that yellow pine so beloved of the 80's) with wallpaper above it. Again, he suggests ripping out the plaster adding some kind of insulating panel which will also prevent damp from entering and replastering with lime.
The second kind of damp comes from the roof. The Surveyor suggested that this was probably due to the following
1. Guttering and flashing needing to be replaced/repaired.
2. Problem where the extension meets the main building (the extension is slightly lower than the main building
3. Chimney and spiret needing to be repointed
4. Missing/loose slates and the fact that some of the lower slates have been stuck on with mastick.
Apparently some of the roof timbers are also quite wet and will need to be replaced but in the main the roof is ok. He also mentioned something about the original panelling being in the loft and this apparently goes down to the lower storey (main part of the building) which could be sending moisture down? At first I had grandiose dreams of some carved oak panelling being hidden behind the wallpaper but I don't think he meant that!
Anyway (and sorry for such a long post) - here's my problem.
We aren't rich and our original aim for the property was to spend what we had doing the following
1. Replacing the central heating system (currently oil) with a wood burner in the main living room (there is a boarded up fireplace and chimney), putting a raeburn in the kitchen and (cost allowing) adding a ground source heat pump as well to run the central heating.
2. Rewiring the property.
3. Ripping out the stud walls of the two small rooms on either side of the main entrance to make an open plan living space (this would also lighten up the dark corridor)
4. Converting the roof space into 2 bedrooms and a bathroom and turning the current bathroom into a utility room.
The surveyor knew that we were planning on the above from our initial chat. However during our second conversation - when he told us of the issues; I asked him for a ballpark figure for sorting it all out and he came back with 100k to do it all. Now I know that materials are expensive. I know that labour is expensive. I know that a ground source heat pump system isn't cheap and neither is a proper loft extension but we'd reckoned that they would cost us about 60k to do properly which means that the cost of sorting out the damp problem.repointing/replastering etc at 40k seems quite high, especially as it's not the largest house in the world (110m). Am I existing is cloud cuckoo land by thinking this?
My second question concerns the question of rising damp. (I have read several conflicting reports on whether or not there is such a thing btw but don't feel qualified to make a decision!)
I know very little about renovation or housebuilding etc and he is the experienced surveyor but I don't think the house is damp - despite it having been empty for a while it didn't feel damp, there was no condensation that I could see anywhere, no black mould in the bathroom or kitchen and although there was a little bit of peeling paper in the two reception rooms. I didnt' get to see the underfloor cavity or the roof so I can't comment on those but my gut feel was that there wasn't any damp.
I think that he's probably quite right about removing the masonry paint/render and also the internal plaster etc but I'm not convinced about the membrane/cement solution - am I daft for thinking that an equally viable solution (once the paint/plaster etc has been removed and the building has had a few months and hopefully dried out a little) would be to replace the hung timber floor where necessary and hope that a decent heating system and the updraught from the re-opened chimneys would go a long way towards solving the problem? (or at least minimise it to a point where it's liveable?). Or would you recommend limecrete floor and if so, would the large underfloor cavity prevent this?
I was also wondering if removing the concrete ramp at the front of the house and digging out at the front where the earth pushes against the walls might be a good idea to? i seem to remember years ago my parents doing similar with a property they were renovating.
Anyway - sorry for a long post but if any of you have any thoughts on this I'd be very grateful to hear them before we potentially make a massive mistake (although I have to admit my gut feeling is that this isn't as big a problem as the surveyor seems to be making it)
thank you
H
