Advice on LBC refusal to replace doors

[Taylor]

I’ve recently been rejected LBC to replace my rotten (new) wooden doors at the rear of my Grade II property to composite wood effect, due to the constant water run off (The extension is the problem child from the thatch run off and being in a cold dark sun-corner) and rot that has settled in. The doors are part of new build extensions/replacements so everything about them is new except the dwelling they are attached to. They are no longer secure and the rot and mould are creeping further into the walls. I’ve tried to stave it off with treatment but hasn’t helped.

I now don’t know what to do and just want rid of the hassle (8 years into a renovation has taken its toll)…
1) Appeal the decision which is based solely on unique character and not in public interest. I disagree. They are new build extensions, cannot be overlooked by anyone (private garden) and will improve the property etc etc.
2) Reapply with wooden doors and face the rot again. I honestly can’t face any more delays or uncertainty, or
3) Replace like for like without another application? Will I get in trouble?

Any help or advice much appreciated from this group.

 

[jamest]

I wouldn't call this advice, but you are permitted to do 'like for like' repairs/replacements without LBC. So if the door is completely rotten, you could replace it with a similar one without LBC (at least in principle) and anyway, who would ever know? If it were me, I would replace it with a similar door but made in solid oak, which doesn't rot unless in constant contact with moisture (and even then it's pretty hardy), or accoya (I assume the one you have is softwood of some sort).

However, it looks to me as if you've likely got a drainage/water splash issue in that corner. How does the rainwater get out from that lower pathway bit in front of the door on the left? When it falls into that corner it's also going to splash up the walls and cause damp issues - I would be trying to address those things because they are likely causing the mould you mention.

 

[Stevers]

That would be why so many cottages have catslide roofs on the back of them!

My joiner will no longer make any sort of door or window in softwood, as he's found that they rot within twenty years. A canopy (with guttering) over the door would help to protect something 'like for like' made in a hardwood, but you'll probably still need to embrace some rustic mould from the splashback off that thatch.

 

[Cubist]

My evil mind is thinking that your CO is still smarting about being over-ruled when the application to install that whacking great Heat Pump was approved and is taking a petty revenge. Personally I don't like composite materials and would go for a traditional solid oak solution on a like for like basis but - the idea of tweaking the COs sensibilities by pointing out the obvious nonsense of the decision does appeal.

BTW - it's never a good idea to run pavers directly underneath the thatch line. Better to allow run-off from the roof to fall to bare earth and carried away from the house by simple French drains.

 

[Flyfisher]

Presumably the LBC for the extension specified a wooden door, so I'm not surprised that a composite door has now been refused. You can appeal of course but I wouldn't waste my time.

I don't think the rotten door is the real problem. As jamest points out, it looks like rain water management is the real issue here, coupled with a dark corner that gets little sun. I'm wondering why the extension door is significantly lower than the paving and what is the level of the floor inside the original part of the house. It should, ideally, be at least 150mm above the outside ground level. I also agree with Cubist about the folly of allowing the thatch run-off to fall onto the paving, where it will splash all over the wall.

I'd be thinking about removing the paving against the house and replacing it with a flower bed or gravel. Or perhaps also lowering the ground against the house, depending on the internal floor level.

As for the thatch run-off in the corner of the new extension, I can't recall ever seeing some sort of guttering used with thatch but I'm wondering if something is possible to direct the run-off onto the extension roof and guttering? Basically, I'm trying to think of how to reduce the amount of water falling into and collecting in that corner. if that can be done then I'd expect the door problem to go away. Stevers idea of a guttered canopy over the door, perhaps extending into the corner, would likely solve the problem, effectively forming a useful 'porch' area that would remain dry. It shouldn't be too difficult to agree a suitable design that blends with the extension.

And if it could also hide that heat pump it would be an even bigger improvement

 

[Kearn]

I wouldn't call this advice, but you are permitted to do 'like for like' repairs/replacements without LBC. So if the door is completely rotten, you could replace it with a similar one without LBC (at least in principle) and anyway, who would ever know?

Hate to sound pedantic, but that’s not quite true - often like for like repairs won’t need a full LBC app, but that is meant to be confirmed by your CO. Which probably wouldn’t help much in this instance…!

In a situation like this, I’d probably feel it unnecessary to go for for LBC or even like for like permission, but, if there’s a history with the CO, there’s a heightened likelihood of some come back and worse case an enforcement order.

If it were me I’d certainly follow the advice here, don’t try to deal with the symptoms of the moisture, deal with the cause and sort the overhang, drainage and runoff so water won’t impact your future changes.

An appeal will be a slow waste of time and energy, and likely achieve nothing.

are you able to contact the CO to float the idea of like for like timber replacement? Risk is once you’ve mentioned it, if they say no, it’s on their radar…

 

[LadyArowana]

Do you have an outbuilding or handy large garage? Remove the old door, keep it put away, put up your new door as you wish. As and when you come to sell or if the CO is coming round waving an enforcement notice put the old one back and say they must be mistaken… Of course I’m being sarcastic, but CO’s are not my favourite people at times. Ours cost us a lot of extra money for zero benefit and would have actually had us put something highly inappropriate on the house just because she didn’t seem to read the application properly or indeed read the detailed and supportive comment from our local heritage organisation. Luckily a very angry person who was involved in the project ‘had words’ with her superior.

 

[Taylor]

I wouldn't call this advice, but you are permitted to do 'like for like' repairs/replacements without LBC. So if the door is completely rotten, you could replace it with a similar one without LBC (at least in principle) and anyway, who would ever know? If it were me, I would replace it with a similar door but made in solid oak, which doesn't rot unless in constant contact with moisture (and even then it's pretty hardy), or accoya (I assume the one you have is softwood of some sort).

However, it looks to me as if you've likely got a drainage/water splash issue in that corner. How does the rainwater get out from that lower pathway bit in front of the door on the left? When it falls into that corner it's also going to splash up the walls and cause damp issues - I would be trying to address those things because they are likely causing the mould you mention.

Hi thanks, there is a drain to the soak away at the bottom of the steps by the left/utility door. You’re right though there is a splash issue with the run off from the patio and thatch. It’s lower there because the cottage is on 2 levels. I’ve created a doorway into the lower part to join the new extension with what was an attached outbuilding. Dealing with that is another issue which might be another LBC someone will reject but it used to have a corrugated Perspex pergola for what of a better description across the whole tea from porch to outbuilding.

I think a call with the CC planners is required. The decision was issued at 1758 on a Friday!

 

[Taylor]

My evil mind is thinking that your CO is still smarting about being over-ruled when the application to install that whacking great Heat Pump was approved and is taking a petty revenge. Personally I don't like composite materials and would go for a traditional solid oak solution on a like for like basis but - the idea of tweaking the COs sensibilities by pointing out the obvious nonsense of the decision does appeal.

BTW - it's never a good idea to run pavers directly underneath the thatch line. Better to allow run-off from the roof to fall to bare earth and carried away from the house by simple French drains.

Ironically the CO had few issues with my original application as the building was in a very poor state of repair. The HP is in lieu of a giant green oil tank so not much difference and I do plan to disguise it.

I think a newer version of the original pergola might be required in the long run. I’ll just have to see if I can get wood doors for a reasonable price.

 

[Taylor]

Presumably the LBC for the extension specified a wooden door, so I'm not surprised that a composite door has now been refused. You can appeal of course but I wouldn't waste my time.

I don't think the rotten door is the real problem. As jamest points out, it looks like rain water management is the real issue here, coupled with a dark corner that gets little sun. I'm wondering why the extension door is significantly lower than the paving and what is the level of the floor inside the original part of the house. It should, ideally, be at least 150mm above the outside ground level. I also agree with Cubist about the folly of allowing the thatch run-off to fall onto the paving, where it will splash all over the wall.

I'd be thinking about removing the paving against the house and replacing it with a flower bed or gravel. Or perhaps also lowering the ground against the house, depending on the internal floor level.

As for the thatch run-off in the corner of the new extension, I can't recall ever seeing some sort of guttering used with thatch but I'm wondering if something is possible to direct the run-off onto the extension roof and guttering? Basically, I'm trying to think of how to reduce the amount of water falling into and collecting in that corner. if that can be done then I'd expect the door problem to go away. Stevers idea of a guttered canopy over the door, perhaps extending into the corner, would likely solve the problem, effectively forming a useful 'porch' area that would remain dry. It shouldn't be too difficult to agree a suitable design that blends with the extension.

And if it could also hide that heat pump it would be an even bigger improvement

Thanks. The property is on 2 levels. The left chimney and everything else left of it is 3 steps lower than the right. To join the extension I had to dig down and create steps up to the garden. Slight oversight now that plenty of paid experts did not see or consider…

HP or oil tank . It will be disguised with time. My issue now is how to secure a property with a rotten door.

 

[a twig]

Usually a decision 17:58 on a Friday means that it had reached their deadline to respond and so in order to hit their KPIs they will have just said no to get the decision done in time.

A conversation is always more helpful, maybe see if you can actually speak to the CO in the phone