advice on a career change into property restoration!

[Becka]

Hello again,
I'm a long time member back after an extended absence but I'm hoping no one will hold that against me if I pick your brains.. Basically, I found out last week that I'm facing redundancy and after the initial shock I'm starting to see this as less of a disaster and more of an opportunity to move away from a job I'm long found dull into something new and exciting What I'm considering is taking my redundancy and savings and basically taking a year out to retrain, do courses, work on my house and allotment and generally get my life in order and hopefully at the end of it come out with some qualifications and experience in traditional building techniques, I'm thinking lime plastering, flint walling, joinery, wattle and daub etc as these are all useful in my corner of essex, possibly in combination with some more 'traditional' building skills like electrics and plumbing and maybe even some horticulture (my other love) so I'm a good all rounder, does this sound feasible to people? and has anyone on here done something like this and have any hints /tips/ courses to recommend/avoid? As a starter I'm considering doing some of the courses run by the essex county council but these are all 2-3 day type things and I'm thinking taht given I will have the time something more in depth might be better..I'd be jumping in with both feet as I'm currently working in science and bored silly sat at a computer all day so other than a few self taught skills I'm an enthusiastic beginner so any advice or recommendations would be very gratefully recieved

Many thanks in advance,
Becca :O)

 

[robgil]

i would say work as a labourer for a while then pick a trade that you think you might be good at , get trained up then think about becoming an 'all rounder'.
its not as easy as just going out and restoring other peoples houses, if you mess someones house up through inexperience in the building trade you could end up in a lot of trouble. do your time , there are no short cuts.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I presume you are female? I only ask because I often entertain similar fantasies of re-training and doing something useful, practical and rewarding but think it would be extremely hard as a woman to enter what still seems to be a very male world,not to even mention the physical challenge of some of the skills you mention. You're in science, also, I believe, still rather male-dominated, so maybe this is not an issue for you.

I have a number of female friends currently breaking their backs in gardens, they trained in garden design but find that people want new fencing, paving, and heavy landscaping work much more than designs. So I think go into whatever you choose with eyes open and talk to people who make a living from flint walling or wattle and daub or whatever. I took up salsa dancing to the point of teaching it in my mid 20's, which was completely great, except I ended up having back surgery as my body had not been trained to it and now salsa's banned, along with lots else. So be careful, think about your body too and its strengths and capabilities. My plumber says it's physically very hard doing what he does, he's forever hunched up in damp corners squinting into the dark! But perhaps you regularly take part in triathlons and are not daunted by my feeble reservations!

I'll be really interested to hear how this thread progresses and what you decide to do.

 

[MdB]

I took up salsa dancing to the point of teaching it in my mid 20's, which was completely great ...

Well that's two ex Salsa teachers on PPUK, I wonder what the chances of that are? Are there any more?

If there is ever a PPUK dance meet, I'll give you a gentle spin round the dance floor Joce (respective other halves and dodgy backs allowing of course).

 

[DaveBrigg]

We have just looked at getting an imersion water tank fitted into the current hot water system, to boost the temperature of the water coming from a wood boiler. After first inspection, the heating engineer said it was fairly straightforward, and having had a bit of practice with push-fit I was tempted to give it a go myself. However, with a long list of jobs I just cleared a space and put the electrical fittings in place (to be connected by the electrician) ready for the work to be done next morning.
Tea-time, and the heating guy was still there. He had investigated the thermal store connected to the boiler, taken pictures, checked his training files and discovered that putting an additional heater into an unvented system like ours would give a strong possibility of the tank exploding, taking out the wall, roof and anyone stood nearby. To qualify as a heating engineer he had completed training in evening classes at a local college over a couple of years (after opting for a change in career), and is at the moment in Devizes on another course. Those years of training made the difference between disappointment and disaster.
I suspect that a year is probably not long enough for most people to become skilled in building, plumbing, electrical work or horticulture, so it may be best to pick one area to start with, and see how it goes

 

[JoceAndChris]

MdB, how lovely to find another period-property obsessed salsa dancing enthusiast. Cuban or mambo? Gosh I miss it, but yes, gentle spins now in place of all those crazy lifts n dips. (I am very short and little, so got hurled about and dropped quite a lot)

I couldn't agree more Dave- explore the professions you mention Becka, and focus on one. Diversification would only be possible after you had mastered one craft.

As for me, I think after a lot of soul-searching it's going to have to be upholstery. Much as I'm drawn to the romance of thatching, lime-plastering, or willow weaving I just don't think I have the bravery or strength for those crafts. Upholstery is what everyone wants, I've found thousands of chairs at Horncastle, now, crying out for some love, I'm good with a needle and fabric, Off I go.

 

[ilona73]

MdB, how lovely to find another period-property obsessed salsa dancing enthusiast. Cuban or mambo? Gosh I miss it, but yes, gentle spins now in place of all those crazy lifts n dips. (I am very short and little, so got hurled about and dropped quite a lot)

I couldn't agree more Dave- explore the professions you mention Becka, and focus on one. Diversification would only be possible after you had mastered one craft.

As for me, I think after a lot of soul-searching it's going to have to be upholstery. Much as I'm drawn to the romance of thatching, lime-plastering, or willow weaving I just don't think I have the bravery or strength for those crafts. Upholstery is what everyone wants, I've found thousands of chairs at Horncastle, now, crying out for some love, I'm good with a needle and fabric, Off I go.

Can i just echo what has been said here... but don't let anything stop you going for what you want... I used to be a nurse and after burn out and ten years i had enough.... after my last child ozzy (now 6) i decided enough was enough and so went back to uni and did interior design and i love it... If its of interest to you and you love it you will find a way of incorporating it into your new life..Things happen... times change.. things are sent to try us but its all character building... just take your time and enjoy building you own new "character" whatever shape or form that may take
Most of all good luck
Its exciting times ahead

 

[Gervase]

A year is very little time to master a skill to the point where you can ask other people to employ you, particularly if you want to acquire a pot-pourri of trades. I did the jump - for two decades I was a journalist, then ran a business, then retrained as a blacksmith and then worked in a foundry for a couple of years before starting on the building work. It took me the best part of three years before I felt confident enough to have the cheek to ask anyone to pay for anything I'd done, and three years on from that I'm still learning.

Master one trade first, and only then think of diversifying. If you want to do lime plastering, do a plastering course at your local tech college. You'll learn the trowel skills and techniques that will stand you in good stead for limework, and you'll also get an insight into how the trade works. But be warned - most trades require craft skills that some people can pick up quickly and others never manage. Acquiring those skills is vital - the very last thing the period property market needs is yet another person who thinks lime plaster should be applied with a pair of Marigolds and look like a toddler's breakfast!

If joinery and carpentry and working with wood floats your boat, again take a course at your local tech or FE college. As with all trades, you really must master the basics before you can branch out to do the 'fancier' and more authentic stuff. Remember, if you are working for other people your work has to be of a standard that will satisfy both Building Control and the client, each of whom might want different outcomes. To that end you will need to know the Approved Docs inside out, and be confident enough to argue your corner against a stroppy bloke from the council who's seen it all before. You'll also have to get your head around costings, specifications, quantity surveying and book-keeping (HMRC are very helpful with this, and are not the ogres popular mythology would have you believe). Insurance is vital too. As is reliability in transport, tools and equipment.

As a woman I'll stick my neck out and say you have an advantage. If you can prove that you know what you're doing, and can do as well as you talk, other trades will treat you with courtesy, and many clients will welcome you with open arms. I nearly took on a woman assistant a couple of years back, and was disappointed when she decided she'd rather continue with a career in the fire service because the job was more secure.

As has been suggested, who not try to find someone working near you who would consider taking you on as an apprentice? There are government grants which help with this, and you'll get the college tuition and experience on the job. I'm currently looking to take one on, and am looking for someone with a bit of maturity and the right attitude towards traditional buildings. Around here they're like hen's teeth, unfortunately.

Once you've got the basic skills you can then do courses at places like the Weald and Downland museum to acquire the specialist knowledge you need to follow your own particular avenue. Accept that you will always be learning, and force yourself to be a perfectionist and to be as professional as you can at all times. Accept that there will be some jobs that common sense will force you to walk away from, and that there will be others that will come back to haunt you as you lie in bed in the dark watches of the night as you repeatedly ask yourself "Why?"

You will have to be a diplomat and counsellor; for the client, employing you is often a source of stress and anxiety. They will want reassurance, both verbally and demonstrably, that they are getting value for money and a proper job done and that they are doing 'the right thing' when others have mocked them for their insistence on traditional materials and techniques or bamboozled them with miracle damp cures.

It is physically hard work, and there will times when moving several tonnes of aggregate while the sleet whirls around you, or sitting on a scaffold chipping out cement pointing while the rain cascades off an unguttered roof onto your head for eight hours can make you wonder why on earth you took the job on.

I'm sorry if that all sounds rather negative, but you have be realistic. If you still want to do it, and have the tenacity, aptitude and luck to get on, you'll find that there are few occupations more satisfying, and that everything you've done previously seems shallow and ephemeral by comparison. And then your knee joints will start to play up and arthritis will kick in... :wink:

Good luck!

 

[MdB]

MdB, how lovely to find another period-property obsessed salsa dancing enthusiast. Cuban or mambo? Gosh I miss it, but yes, gentle spins now in place of all those crazy lifts n dips. (I am very short and little, so got hurled about and dropped quite a lot)

UK version of Cuban (which is nothing like what is danced in Cuba apart from the tourist joints I am told). I also stayed clear of any of the lifts and most of the dips. Didn't want to get into trouble if any of them went wrong.

 

[Becka]

Thank you all for your thoughts and advice.. I've certainly got alot to think about over the next month or so (redundancies will probably be in July). At the moment I'm at the point of knowing I don't want to do what I'm doing now (or one of the similar roles I could go for after the 'restructuring') but not having an absolutely concrete (if that isn't a dirty word here) idea of what I want to go on to do hence the idea of dipping my toe into a few things and seeing where I go. Which is admittedly quite scary but I feel if I don't take this opportunity now I will probably end up stuck in an office for life. I do take everyone's point about being specialised though, being able to do alot of things badly or very slowly, as I tend to end up with at home as I can be a bit of a perfectionist, isn't much use commercially. I also need to work out what I'm actually physically capable of, as joceandchris guessed I am female, though I'm hoping that may be an advantage as I can't be the only woman who hates having fat old set in their way tradesmen as their only option when they need work doing, and to make it more fun I'm prone to joint problems as I have hypermobile joints (though I seem to have trouble with the little repetative movements like pipetting and mousing and be absolutely fine digging my allotment or slapping on daub) so I have to consider them. I'd dearly love to be your apprentice Gervase, where do I apply? Ok, possibly not realistic considering the distance, but i could consider relocating for the right opportunity (though this would need discussing with my boyfriend obviously). I remember watching your restoration on the telly a couple of years ago now (I particularly the cow muck in the chimney, but think it was also from you that I stole the idea for using read matting as a base for lime plaster?) and I thought it looked great, that is precisely what I would love to be doing (even the cow muck, I rescue ex-battery hens so I'm no stranger to muck and bad smells). I see so many houses round here still getting messed up with concrete and injections etc, and it simultaneously annoys me and makes me want to do something to change the situation and shows me a definite opportunity and I think that, if I can find the right way into it, I could be really good at it, but I've still got alot of thinking and planning to do I think..

 

[Stephen]

Becka

You are just down the road from me (I'm in Bishops Stortford).

The Essex courses are great, but not sure you will learn enough from just those.

I know quite a few of those involved in conservation around this way. Do you want to meet for a chat? I would be happy to meet up for lunch or perhaps late afternoon if you are still working and cannot get time off during the day. I can talk you through the pros and cons of become a craftsperson or going into a profession, or something else (becomming a CO for example!).

Give me a ring some time.

For my details see the entries on this site for The Whitworth Co-Partnership (go to the Listings page of the Products & Services section and scroll down to our ad on the right - it takes you to our web site). On our web site contact page look for my office in Bishops Stortford.

The above is a bit long winded, but to avoid spammers, etc I would rather not simply give my details out on this page.

Regards

Stephen

 

[Becka]

Hi Stephen,

That sounds great, thank you, it would be really good to talk to someone who knows the business and can help me clarify what I want to do. At the moment most of my ideas are pretty woolly and ill formed as you can probably tell, so it would be great to get some help to at least set me in a sensible direction. I'll try and ring you this afternoon and sort out a good time.

Thanks again,

Becca

 

[Becka]

Hello again,

Stephen, I've left a hopefully not to garbled message on the answerphone at your office. I'll try again tomorrow if I haven't heard from you.

Many thanks,

Becca

 

[Penners]

Becka

The advice that Gervase has given you is solid gold.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I agree, but it's left me very uncertain as to Gervase's gender, which I'd always assumed was male:

As a woman I'll stick my neck out and say you have an advantage.

Male or female, if Gervase has written a book, I'd like to buy it. I love the phrase "the dark watches of the night".

 

[robgil]

i wouldnt let the whole male female thing throw you too much , i know a lot of women trades people who do just as good a job as any man could and are just as capable. if you jump in there with the attitude of 'i am a woman so i cant do a mans job' then you may not get very far.
and who said building work was a mans job anyways?

 

[Schoolmarm]

Gervase is a very masculine male.

He meant with Becka being a woman..........

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks Schoolmarm, you know how easily I am confused.

i wouldnt let the whole male female thing throw you too much , i know a lot of women trades people who do just as good a job as any man could and are just as capable. if you jump in there with the attitude of 'i am a woman so i cant do a mans job' then you may not get very far.
and who said building work was a mans job anyways?

Of course you're right Rob, we women are fantastic at whatever we decide to put our minds to. And some women have tremendous strength and stamina too.

But I'd be rubbish on a building site: the presence of many men would make me completely giddy and I'd be dropping things and fussing over my hair and picking out low cut overalls; it would be hell for all concerned.

I remember when I was a sous-chef in the Unipart factory getting the men to do all the heavy work, and not being able to take anything seriously. A very silly man I was flirting with at the time labelled all my sandwiches "Egg and S***k Surprise" and other fillings that can't be mentioned here. I nearly got the sack over that. I'm still married to that silly man though.

 

[Gervase]

Do talk to Stephen, and do have a think about taking the professional route. There's a desperate shortage of surveyors who know and understand traditional buildings, and there are some good courses out there which can help you find your feet. The College of Estate Management does an MSc in building conservation which you can do in two years for around £15K (I'm starting it myself next year), and a number of other universities offer similar post-grad courses as distance learning. You're likely to be better-paid for your work than if you decide to go down the trade route ('twas ever thus, of course - but I could wax long and loud about the nobility of trade and how undervalued it is. That Robert Tresell? Pah, he's got nothing on me!) and the weather will be kinder. It never seems to rain on people in suits... :wink:

 

[joinerpaul]

I think you might be making the mistake of thinking that because a skilled tradesman makes a job look easy, it is easy. That isn't said to put you off, but your list of skills that you're going to learn in a year is optimistic. If you've got a science training, why not use it? There's any number of issues in conservation and repair that could use some research. The idea of working onsite for a while, just skivvying, is quite a good one, even if you do go on to be a CO or some other clipboard-carrying hardhat wearer ( :roll: ) to get an idea of different trades and what suits you.
I went to school in Saffron Walden...