Advice needed please! What is this covering the beams?

[buffy384faith]

Hi! We are in the process of purchasing a 17th century timber framed cottage and noticed today on one side of the house a part of some sort of cover over the frame is broken off? The bricks looks slightly bowed out I wonder if some sort of framing has been added to support this side or worse that it’s caused the slight bowing- Can anyone offer any advice please or any knowledge on what this covering could be? Thank you so much for any help and advice!

 

[Gothichome]

To me this looks like some sort of cement product over wooden boards. I don’t think the arrangement has done any good for the home.

 

[aockenden]

Agreed with Gothichome. From the pic it looks like a thick cement render laid over the actual timbers and painted black. How’s the integrity of the actual wood underneath which is now exposed? Have you shoved a screwdriver into it? Is it rotting back there?

 

[buffy384faith]

Agreed with Gothichome. From the pic it looks like a thick cement render laid over the actual timbers and painted black. How’s the integrity of the actual wood underneath which is now exposed? Have you shoved a screwdriver into it? Is it rotting back there?

It seemed fine but we are going back on Sunday so we will give it a prod! We feel a bit nervous now, is it a serious problem?

 

[buffy384faith]

To me this looks like some sort of cement product over wooden boards. I don’t think the arrangement has done any good for the home.

Thank you for your reply, it’s grade 2 listed so we are feeling a bit nervous now. We could only see it on the one side of the house so that’s a plus I think!

 

[TudorCottage]

How serious a problem it is, is a how long is a piece of string question. I’d be more concerned about the integrity of the frame that is still covered. The part of the frame that has been exposed could be in better shape than the rest because it has been open to the elements, I’d be more concerned about the frame that’s still covered.

Builders without knowledge of these older buildings always seem to think the best way forward is to cover up and protect from the elements, where as in reality it’s the worst thing you can do.

If you CAN find a timber frame specialist in your area it might be worth paying a few quid to let them take a look. You will get a far better view of the situation than a normal surveyor will be able to give you. They can possibly give you a ball park figure to rectify so you can negotiate on price. Worst case scenario they tell you to move onto something else.

Good luck.

 

[aockenden]

It seemed fine but we are going back on Sunday so we will give it a prod! We feel a bit nervous now, is it a serious problem?

Im sorry, I don’t want to discourage you from your dream. I hated it when people did that to us when we were looking for a place. But you need to know what’s going on for your own financial safety.

It’s a very bad practice to slather thick layers of modern non-breathable materials like cement over wood, especially structural wood. It usually ends up trapping moisture up against the wood and causes it to start rotting. The wood never gets a chance to dry out, and then the bugs and the fungi start to eat it.

You should really watch a few Peter Ward videos on YouTube regarding timber frame houses and the modern mistakes that have been made with them.

 

[Kearn]

I would personally slow down before you commit any further investment… not intended to be a scare, but that building looks like an unopened can of worms. The second image is almost entirely fake, faced on timber. What is behind is anyones guess, and until it’s removed you can’t do more than guess. Why it went on originally is the major concern, and any poor condition timber will only have got worse since it was covered. The various applications of sand and cement including pointing, are worrying as it’s indicative of the overall lack of understanding that the building has been subjected to.

Go back with someone versed in timber frames - there aren’t many heritage surveyors up to the task. A framer would be more likely, but again someone who focuses on heritage conservation and repair, not putting up green oak extensions.

A lot more context is required for any more useful guidance, other photos / listing details / location - timber frames are a special beast, incredibly durable and strong, happily standing for centuries, until the wrong materials are added and the damage done in decades can cripple them beyond economical repair. We’re about to spend 6 figures on timber repairs on our project, we knew that and budgeted it, but many don’t. A genuine statement is that no timber frame repair job ever gets cheaper.

Afraid this an eyes wide open situation and it’s got to all be head not heart…

 

[Toby Newell]

Instinct says does not look good. Covering exterior beams like this never worksout well, just acts like a sponge cap, lots of janky brick infills too. Doesn't look great.

At least they made the effort to fake the pegs it seems.

 

[Lacan07]

Unless you've a pocket full of money with the intention of doing right by the house that's a solid pass for me. How hard is the material that came off? Just make sure it isn't actually lime, you could try the vinegar test.

 

[buffy384faith]

Thanks for your reply- We are actually going back today with the vinegar test as we had the same thought, Also have found a specialist to come out and take a look to see what’s going on!

Unless you've a pocket full of money with the intention of doing right by the house that's a solid pass for me. How hard is the material that came off? Just make sure it isn't actually lime, you could try the vinegar test.

 

[aockenden]

There is no way that delaminated, cracked, plate of dull grey crap is lime. I don’t care what a vinegar test says. All signs point to that stuff being a typical low-IQ builder-bodge fascade of Portland cement slapped over the original timbers to try to make the frame appear to “pop” out of the building and possibly to cover damage / problems with the actual frame.

 

[buffy384faith]

There is no way that delaminated, cracked, plate of dull grey crap is lime. I don’t care what a vinegar test says. All signs point to that stuff being a typical low-IQ builder-bodge fascade slapped over the original timbers to try to make the frame appear to “pop” out of the building and possibly to cover damage / problems with the actual frame

We have a specialist coming over to check it over for us

There is no way that delaminated, cracked, plate of dull grey crap is lime. I don’t care what a vinegar test says. All signs point to that stuff being a typical low-IQ builder-bodge fascade slapped over the original timbers to try to make the frame appear to “pop” out of the building and possibly to cover damage / problems with the actual frame.

Ok thanks. we were just trying to be optimistic! we have organised a heritage specialist to come over now, so we will be interested in what he discovers. Thank you for your replies

 

[Toby Newell]

I don't think it matters if it is lime or not, yes, damp lime is alkaline and alkali's eat wood, but it is more the trapping of moisture.

You also have to ask yourself that if before you even enter the building you can see that there are obvious signs of poor maintenance and repair, what does this indicate about the rest of the property? Having worked on hundreds of period properties such as this I can tell you that levels of 'stupid' as I call them, often come as part of a 'package'.

If I note something particularly egregious, whether wood related or not, I am often more wary about what else I will find. Things often follow a theme. Follow your gut. Your gut lead you here for a reason. The house may be otherwise beautiful, but luckily we have many thousand other period properties in the UK. Some better maintained than others.

 

[Kearn]

Ok thanks. we were just trying to be optimistic! we have organised a heritage specialist to come over now, so we will be interested in what he discovers. Thank you for your replies

I hate to sound pessimistic, but optimism and timber framed properties, are not good bed partners. especially with this level of inappropriate treatments … the material is irrelevant. And it isn’t lime. It’s the fact that the facade has all been covered and hidden… the focus is what lies beneath. You can’t assess a house like this without getting physical with the property, looking is not enough. Although your nose will tell you lots if you have a good sniff behind…

 

[Gothichome]

It’s too bad things like this happen. 500 years old, with possibly 400 years of no or poor maintenance, then uninformed but probably well meaning repairs the last hundred years of its life. I think these homes are worthy of spending the money but finding a caretaker with the funds needed is the hard part.

 

[Lacan07]

There is no way that delaminated, cracked, plate of dull grey crap is lime. I don’t care what a vinegar test says. All signs point to that stuff being a typical low-IQ builder-bodge fascade of Portland cement slapped over the original timbers to try to make the frame appear to “pop” out of the building and possibly to cover damage / problems with the actual frame.

On my screen it looks a pale yellow, what they painted over it though is another matter and does look suspicious.

 

[Gothichome]

A thought to help keep Buffy’s dream home hopes up. Is it permissible to remove all the cement fill and replace with a facing piece of oak. What I mean is, removing all the cement facing, removing all the rot to the depth nessesary and replacing with new solid wood?
she mentions grade two listing, so I would think it would depend on how deep the rot goes, the extent of the rot, and if the heritage people would allow

 

[Toby Newell]

A thought to help keep Buffy’s dream home hopes up. Is it permissible to remove all the cement fill and replace with a facing piece of oak. What I mean is, removing all the cement facing, removing all the rot to the depth nessesary and replacing with new solid wood?
she mentions grade two listing, so I would think it would depend on how deep the rot goes, the extent of the rot, and if the heritage people would allow

I think it depends whether the wood underneath is structural or purely aesthetic as it may need replacing fully which is a massive job.

I also think that thoughtless and derogatory repairs / alterations seldom happen in isolation and can indicate that there may be other unwise works that have been executed which may lead to costs in the tens of thousands to remedy.

Issues such as these would make me look much more carefully at the whole structure.

Period properties always throw up expensive curveballs, even the seemingly good ones, you don't really want to start out with a known lemon.