Advice about old clay roof tiles

[shearwater]

Hi,

I am in the process of buying an 1850s stone rubble cottage in Devon. Sadly, it has been unsympathetically “improved” over the years, including concrete render and hideous Upvc double-glazing. Externally however, it does have the most beautiful characterful roof that has alternating double lines of straight and fish-tail nibbed clay tiles which my surveyor tells me are probably original. Unfortunately, he also says that they are deteriorating and some need replacing. The nibs are becoming fragile and breaking off. Aside from the considerable expense of replacing the roof, I would very much like to keep them for their irreplaceable beauty.

Is there anything I can reasonably do to extend their life for a few more decades?

Thank you

 

[robgil]

are they mossy? perhaps cleaning them would do more damage than good though.
surely you can have replacements made if they cannot be found elsewhere?

 

[shearwater]

The problem is that the nibs are becoming fragile. Once the nib breaks the tile slides off the roof.

No moss though!

 

[Flyfisher]

We lost a fair number of our pantiles this way (broken nibs), but it wasn't hard to find suitable replacements.

I suppose you could consider drilling a hole in the tile and screwing it to the batten (don't tighten the screw and allow the tile to move about otherwise it may crack as the roof 'moves' slightly throughout the seasons).

 

[Baron de Gynes]

My local roofer chappie explained that clay tiles, when they get older, become porous and therefore the wet weather and cold temperatures can cause many tiles to fail, either through broken nibs or the pressure of frozen water causing the tile to crack / explode.

Not a pleasant thought I must admit, but it makes one wonder about the sense of using reclaimed tiles in the repair of roof structures such as these.

 

[Feltwell]

"Shaling" is the way many tiles fail - water gets in them, freezes, and they literally fall apart, like shale. Often they're OK until disturbed, they crumble when you try to lift them.

I think the reality is that if your tiles are starting to fail in numbers, you can replace the failing ones but you will be going back and doing this in greater numbers every year. You don't have to have the nibs on plain clay tiles - they have nail holes already in them, usually it's every 5th row that is nailed. However, if they are fragile enough that the nibs are going then I'm not sure they'll take being nailed. Screws would be gentler but often the hole is only big enough to take a slim nail. Of course for this to work your roofing battens underneath need to be in good shape and firmly attached to the rafters.

Repairs every year are perfectly possible to do for an extended time, but you have the considerable expense of access if scaffolding is required, plus you tend to do damage as you access the roof - some tiles will break as you disturb them, and even using roofing ladders you will put weight onto and break a few.

You can get tiles from reclamation yards, or you can get new plain clay tiles that will weather in with time.

We went for a whole new roof in the end - the original was at the point where it had been patched and re-patched for years, it's a very tall house so scaffolding is a must and that was very expensive. When we stripped the roof only about 40% of the tiles were worth saving. We put new tiles on but made a big mistake - for economy, we went for a concrete replica of a weathered plain clay tile.

From the ground the main roof looks OK, pretty convincing actually, especially as it's now weathering in nicely. However, the single storey scullery at the back is just too low down and up close the tiles don't look right at all. I curse my decision and wish I'd gone for new clay tiles.

Old weathered roofs are undoubtedly beautiful but if you choose the right tiles a new roof would weather to this within a few years.

Alternatively, you could strip the roof, save as many tiles as possible and get reclaims to replace the failed ones. Very very tempting to do this I know but you do then have to accept that you will be up there replacing a few each year. A lot depends on how easy it is to get on your roof - on mine it's impossible unless you are very foolish or willing to pay out for full scaffolding.

A lot of my old roof tiles are now on my new garage, but I can access that roof fairly easily with a roofing ladder to replace the odd failed tile.

 

[Feltwell]

I'd also add - a new roof, or removal and replacement of the existing, might not be as expensive as you think. A small terraced house can be as little as £4k. Ours is large, complicated, particularly high up and needed 3 new roof lights, and the whole thing was £16k including insulation and some joinery work.

I find many people think they're looking at £20k - £40k which unless you've got a seriously big house or the roof is in truly terrible shape is not likely.

Dreadnought are a well known manufacturer of plain clay tiles. Machine made is of course cheaper than hand made. Not sure about 1850, but certainly round this way (we had many brick and tile works in the area) by 1890 they were all machine made. Victorian machine made tiles still have quite a bit of variety in them.

http://www.dreadnought-tiles.co.uk/

 

[Flyfisher]

Machine made is of course cheaper than hand made.

I've mentioned this before somewhere, but my view is that machine-made tiles are far superior to handmade ones. The variation in our pantiles makes them very difficult to lay properly. The last thing needed in roof tiles are variations in dimensions or curvature.

 

[shearwater]

Hello,

Thank you so much everyone for your guidence. This is the first time I have bought my own home and though I am a reasonably practical person (I am bosun on a large sailing ship), I admit to being a little daunted by the responsibility of taking care of an older property. Nerves aside, I am really excited about this little piece of history.

Thank you again, knowing that you are here to help ..... helps

 

[Feltwell]

Machine made is of course cheaper than hand made.

I've mentioned this before somewhere, but my view is that machine-made tiles are far superior to handmade ones. The variation in our pantiles makes them very difficult to lay properly. The last thing needed in roof tiles are variations in dimensions or curvature.

I don't doubt for a moment that's true with pantiles, but I think plain tiles are a bit more forgiving of a bit of "rustic charm". The way they are laid means unless the tile is very warped then a bit of variation doesn't matter too much.

At least now with a breathable membrane going beneath the tiles then anything that does get through will get intercepted by that.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Hello,

Thank you so much everyone for your guidence. This is the first time I have bought my own home and though I am a reasonably practical person (I am bosun on a large sailing ship), I admit to being a little daunted by the responsibility of taking care of an older property. Nerves aside, I am really excited about this little piece of history.

Thank you again, knowing that you are here to help ..... helps

Aww - we will all try to help as much as possible. I think you can limp your roof along for a bit - mine's been limping along for 200 years! As is mentioned above, the membrane is critical - my slate tiles are more decorative than anything else.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Hello,

Thank you so much everyone for your guidence. This is the first time I have bought my own home and though I am a reasonably practical person (I am bosun on a large sailing ship), I admit to being a little daunted by the responsibility of taking care of an older property. Nerves aside, I am really excited about this little piece of history.

Thank you again, knowing that you are here to help ..... helps

Welcome to the forum shearwater - you will get lots of good and willing advice on here; especially if you post us a pic or two.! :wink:

 

[Flyfisher]

. . . especially of your large sailing ship :wink:
Is it anything like that Polish tall ship that was towed into Falmouth earlier today after a storm off the Scillies?

 

[Flyfisher]

Machine made is of course cheaper than hand made.

I've mentioned this before somewhere, but my view is that machine-made tiles are far superior to handmade ones. The variation in our pantiles makes them very difficult to lay properly. The last thing needed in roof tiles are variations in dimensions or curvature.

I don't doubt for a moment that's true with pantiles, but I think plain tiles are a bit more forgiving of a bit of "rustic charm". The way they are laid means unless the tile is very warped then a bit of variation doesn't matter too much.

At least now with a breathable membrane going beneath the tiles then anything that does get through will get intercepted by that.

You're probably right about flat tiles. But, yes, a membrane might be important with any roof but it's pretty much essential with pantiles!

 

[shearwater]

 

[Feltwell]

Beautiful ship. And Norway - one of my favourite countries without a doubt, such a lovely place to visit. Fantastic destination if anyone is into motorbikes, likes the wild countryside, beautiful scenery and a distinct lack of people! (Plus those you do meet are very friendly).

And there ends my advertisement for the Norwegian Tourist Board!

 

[Penners]

...To the lonely sea and the sky.

Hello, Shearwater, and welcome.

I agree very much with Feltwell's comments above. Once clay tiles have started to fail, you have to give serious consideration to the viability of conserving them. No matter how committed you may be to the principles of conservation, the whole building has to be considered above and beyond any one element of it. If you make some kind of short-term repair to failing tiles, are you likely to risk a more serious failure of the roof in the fairly near future, risking damage to the building? And will the cost of repairs prejudice your budget for a more radical roof replacement?

So far as I can tell, we haven't established precisely what sort of clay tiles you have. Are they pantiles or peg-tiles? If the latter, I have seen a peg-tile roof that had some tiles pegged and others that had nibs. There were some failed nibs, and these had been drilled - galvanised nails had been dropped through the drilled holes and lodged behind the battens, to act as nibs.

But as I said, you have to be realistic about the likely remaining life of a failing tile before you spend time and money trying to repair it.

 

[shearwater]

.... and all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.

Thank you everyone for your warm welcome and advice. It is much appreciated. I hope to move into my new home in a few weeks and will then spend time just getting to know it as it is. What an adventure!

Health and happiness to you