Aaaaaargh!

[Gareth Hughes]

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23367766-details/Go+green+or+face+higher+taxes,+households+are+warned/article.do

Homeowners who refuse to alter their houses and flats to conserve more heat and power face higher council tax bills, ministers revealed.

Actually, it's homeowners who do alter their houses who will be eligible for a reduced council tax bill, but it still amounts to big-money time for the plastic window merchants. :evil:

 

[thiambal]

Oh god - all that money I saved by lovingly restoring my original sash windows is about to go out the window (pardon the pun) on council tax bills.

Bugger!

 

[Nigel Watts]

The best way to reduce energy use is to make energy more expensive, but for some reason increasing energy taxes is taboo for the government. With more expensive engery homeowners can then make a choice - wear jumpers indoors, turn down the heating, switch off lights, take fewer hot baths etc or make the house more energy efficient by insulating it, double glazing it etc. Why penalise the former and incentivise the latter when the effect is the same?

 

[thiambal]

Mrs C and I have decided to try and go for a 'as little heating as possible' policy for this winter. Plenty of extra jumpers and the fire going in the lounge.

Should cut the heating bill, save the planet and cause Mrs C to snuggle up to me in bed - so a win win situation really!

 

[Penners]

Mrs C and I have decided to try and go for a 'as little heating as possible' policy for this winter.

An apparently excellent suggestion, except that the concept of "as little as possible" is open to highly variable interpretation.

According to the present Mrs P, our house is never "chilly", or even "cold" - it's always "freezing", unless we fill it with sufficient warm air to virtually lift it off the ground.

 

[thiambal]

Mrs C informs me that she does not mind the cold and it is me who always wants the heating turning on/up.

Fortunately the pain nerve connected to my wallet is more sensitive than those detecting temperature. Plus, as we live by the coast, I have a nagging worry about ending up below sea level.

 

[Penners]

Great - so you'll end up cold and wet!

 

[plumbers mate]

Great - once again those without money are forced to accept a lower standard of house eg a mangled victorian terrace with placcy windows, or be forced to pay more which they can't afford whilst those with money can enjoy pperiod housing which hasn't been spoilt because they can afford to pay extra.

They are the ones with the overseas holidays and 4x4 cars too - I have no car but victorian windows - why should I pay more?

 

[Penners]

You don't pay more. But if you improve the thermal insulation of your house, you pay less.

 

[Moo]

I still don't understand why expensive double-glazing is regarded as the only way to cut heat loss through windows.
My old mum devised her own method, which was to have two curtain tracks and use the second one for extra curtains when winter set in. Never one for conspicuous consumption, she got the extras from jumble sales (I'm talking of pre-charity shop days).

 

[Geoffrey]

I think if you can improve the thermal efficiency of your house without damaging the existing fabric it's a good thing - so does anyone know of a system for double glazing leaded casements that is both practical to live with and doesn't ruin the appearance (inside or out)?

(Apologies for hijack)

 

[Geoffrey]

If you look at the English Heritage advisory document on historic buildings and Part L of building regs (downloadable as a pdf from their website), you'll see some very unobtrusive secondary glazing fitted to some leaded windows at an old pub. In place it's almost invisible.

Oops - hadn't got that far down the board.[/quote]

 

[Nemesis]

I wonder if anyone has done any sums on this one though?

Retention of old window - heat loss pretty minimal really, if they are relatively well draughtproofed. Old houses tend to have small windows.

Remove windows, throw on skip/in landfill. have new ones installed = factories to be built, more energy use, materials manufacture, transport, etc etc.

And (shock horror...) uPVC apparently pollutes, both in manufacture and disposal - although now we are told they are a 'green' product as they can now be recycled. Bet the glass isn't however - more transport, more landfill.

Even more shock horror - apparently uPVC windows don't last forever, and they (and doors) are now seen as lifestyle items - you change 'em to suit the latest fad.

So - if I keep my old-fashioned single-glazed timber windows I may lose a small amount of heat (although shutters and curtains help) but I reckon in the long term they are rather more energy efficient than removal and replace.

 

[biffvernon]

The question of whether a window has a plastic frame or a wooden frame has nothing to do with whether it is double glazed or single glazed.

 

[Penners]

uPVC apparently pollutes, both in manufacture and disposal - although now we are told they are a 'green' product as they can now be recycled. Bet the glass isn't however.

Glass is certainly recyclable. You just melt it down and start again. Glass cuttle is also used is also used for new applications like non-skid road surfaces.

 

[Nemesis]

I appreciate it CAN be recycled - I mean I bet it isn't.

Mine has ben in my windows for a considerable time though - better than recycling repeatedly.

 

[Penners]

I've never understood why glass recycling sites require you to chuck your bottles into a big bin, where they inevitably smash. Why don't we do what was the norm in my dim, distant youth? You got 2d back on every pop bottle that you returned to the shop - these were then returned to the supplier, washed and used again... as pop bottles.

 

[biffvernon]

Because it's cheaper to make a new bottle than to clean an old one. The raw material, sand, is hardly an endangered species. As the price of energy rises we might go back to bottle washing but maybe it's better just to get the wine in 10 litre boxes.

 

[plumbers mate]

Remember that washing also requires a lot of energy input - there's the water (getting rarer) heating the water or whatever to sterilise the bottles, label removal and transport to/from cleaning plants to re-use site.
All costs which have to be included.

(Milk bottles can be of recycled glass even with a greenish tint but Newcastle Brown Ale is always in bottles of new glass so that the colour of the bottle is perfectly clear.)

 

[Penners]

maybe it's better just to get the wine in 10 litre boxes.

If only....! In France a goodly proportion of wine producers will sell you their (often very good) table wines in a 5 litre or 10 litre pack (le bag-in-box).

Over here I've never seen them any larger than 3 litres.

Actually, I'm not convinced that a colour printed cardboard box, containing a thick plastic bag with a plastic tap, is actually more environmentally sound than a glass bottle and a cork.